so what you're saying is, 200+ point figures aren't good without fortitude.

Compelling!

What?! I'll grant you Black Adam has his faults, but not any good? I'd happily run him against Namor.... both are awesome.

dang dude, he took the effort to write it up. NOW i might not agree with him, but he had the courage to state his opinion. He is defending it. TheLe i applaud you for coming up with your own views on this even though on most of them I must disagree.

The prob I have with this is the stipulations you have to add in are points....and i am not talking about feats. Are the games just for those figures themselves against an army or just part of a team. These characters should be good in and of themselves with minimal finesse.


ok i will put my 2 cents down.

A) darkseed (sorry couldn't help myself) his only failing is that he doesn't have that move and attack or indom. but really other than that he can certainly JACK YOUR TEAM UP with 12 range and different ways to manipulate it as well as the perplex and outwit to back it up.

B) Ulti. Thor The nice thing about him when his points were worth it, was the fact that even though you could outwit his whole dial with batman, it didn't make his damage or attack any lower. he was just a straight attack beast. True he has a bad defense but a lot of the older characters do. He is a beater that, even if they are stealthed, will certainly JACK YOUR TEAM UP at range, and then again if they get close. i have to agree with others on this, i think maybe overcosted not overrated...but then...

C) M&M Apocalypse
ok i have to completely disagree here, sorry but this guy is a beast all the chances you get to role not to take damage i am reallly suprised they didn't give him Super Senses too *rolls eyes*. True what makes him deadly is his ability to use almost any feat in the game, but even naked dial wise, he more than pays for his points, multiple ways to get out of damage, and get away from people, and blow them up. Then lets say they do get you down lower.....you regen and then smack em for an extra clix if you can to top all that off he has the poor man's indom so he cna return and JACK YOUR TEAM UP. he really pays for himself. trust me i have fought off 2 300 point team Simultaneously it was awesome.

D) the Scar
can't really say much, i agree just because i have seen him taken down. He is a great character but definately needs some back up or he might not JACK YOUR TEAM UP.

E)RoofTop Batman
This guy is a finesse player's wetdream. I bounced around the board with this guy slowly dismantling the other players team and still took them down in the time limit. his big claim to fame is that his low point value makes him this ultimate multifarious piece. if the value is low enough he is your main attacker, or support secondary attacker if its higher. His values are pretty steady down the board and then you make him indomitable.....eeeee so he outwits your def, swoops in to a smokecloud he just made, and flurrys you in the face for 6 damage.....thats a worry in my book.

once again these are just my opinions.

But you are wrong sir!
In a game where feats and such are allowed, a character's rating CAN be increased based on the powers they are capable of tacking on via feats or whatever. For instance.. Chase Batman, he's a pretty outstanding feet in his own right, but tacking on things like lunge and maneuvers really bring him to insane new levels.

You can certainly review the CORE figure, but it's always good to have in the back of your mind other things that REALLY stand out to make that character even more special. Fortitude/protected help make any brick better.. But what feat could be added to X brick to make it more special than the other.

In the case of someone like apocalypse.. a lot..

i believe his is good just NOT as good as his points allow. if he were maybe 199 or something i could be much more in agreement. but as it stands he doesn't match up to characters of the same point value and some that are less....lookin at you darkseid, KC supes, Scar, DOOM, Magus, etc.

You are absolutely correct! When reviewing any character on, let's say, a scale of 100%, every figure will go up a few points when you start assigning feats.

However, you have to draw the line somewhere.

For the purpose of picking a "top 5", you have to have a level playing field and use the least common denominator. This article was a list, not a review, and for that I apologize for the poor communication.

A list is only good if all is equal. For example, if you are choosing the "top 3 best hulks", is it fair to put Rampaging Hulk + Fortitude as #1, but put Green Scar + Protected as #2? Not really, because each feat drastically changes each character. Now, if both are assigned the same feat, then now you have a better comparison. But as I said before, what's the point of talking about HeroClix figures if I just assume they all have protected?

I noticed that some readers mentioned that Black Adam wasn't included in my list. If you apply Protected and Fortitude to Black Adam in a 400-point game, does he still belong in the overrated list? Does that make him better than Green Scar without those feats?

There really is no right or wrong answer when it comes to articles like mine, since its all subjected.

Most people disagree with my list, which is fine -- just keep things cordial and state your case! Don't just tell me that I'm wrong... prove it!

-The Le

Don't get me wrong, I love the new Adam, I just wish he was as cost effective as Namor.

I never said the characters weren't good. In fact, I think they are.

But are they overrated?

Yes your article is subjective, and totally based on your own opinions, just stating that sometimes a feat can't be ignored.
For my reviews I always try to focus on the core character because 90% of the time that's going to be the bluntest form of, is this character good or not.

But unfortunately on anything new changes to the rules have to be taken into account. Feats are those very changes to the rule. Unique Wasp from Hypertime was great when she was a viable taxi piece. Then NAAT came. Do we ignore the changes? Feats are a change to the way the game plays, should they be ignored?

Sure level the playing field by not assigning any feats to X piece, but part of the playing field has to be left with, this character can use ABC Feats. Every character whether they have a feat attached or not has featable potential. It's at least worth considering.

sn091 U Nick Fury
Team: S.H.I.E.L.D.
Range: 8
Points: 63
Keywords: S.H.I.E.L.D., Soldier, Spy, Ultimates

8 9 17 3

8 10 17 3

7 9 16 3

7 8 16 2

7 8 15 2

6 7 15 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

cr029 V Nightwing
Team: Batman Ally
Range: 6
Points: 79
Keywords: Detective, Gotham City, Martial Artist, Outsiders, Police, Teen Titans

9 10 17 2

8 10 16 2

8 9 16 2

7 9 17 2

7 9 16 2

6 8 15 1

6 8 15 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

(Speed) Dual Membership: Nightwing can use the Outsiders and Titans team abilities and possesses the Outsiders and Titans team symbols.

(Attack) Fisticuffs: Nightwing can use Flurry.

(Defense) Acrobat: Nightwing can use Combat Reflexes, Energy Shield/Deflection, and Leap/Climb.

Now you're just trying to be controvertial... anyone who would play Nick Fury would love the feel of Nightwing, and vice versa. They play very similarly, except that Nick ignores damage reducers up front, while Nightwing instead ignores them at the end of his dial.

And when they go out drinking, if one forgets his ID he can just borrow the other guy's.

maybe he means theyre overrated because of their over the top sculpts

Good read- it got me thinking about the pieces, I have to disagree with darkseid and of course Nick Fury. Darkseid has done very well every time i have played him. 300, 400, whatever point cost. Nick is just a mean little 63 point annoying ranged piece.

First off I hope this is a joke because if not you’ve done a horrible job of the top 5 overrated figures list or maybe you just like to start up controversy.

DARKSEID – He is a very strong piece for many reasons. He can go through stealth (which is useful in the game today with so much stealth), outwit, perplex and after 2 clicks mastermind and will power(if you play him right you can use these clicks to make him live a lot longer than he should and at the same time lighting up enemies with a high damage without pushing).

Ultimates Thor – Nobody makes the claim that this piece is great anymore. He was great because back in the day he could smash any glass jawed piece (which was everyone) and laugh at stealth in the process. So in the end the only reason this piece is bad is that he is old.

M&M Apocalypse – You can make a case for this figure because he does seem to have many powers that don’t work together and after a few clicks doesn’t seem like a 250 fig. However he is a beast with trick shot and camouflage.

Green Scar – I’ve never seen him win in a 300 pt game, but this is true for a lot of high point figures which is so far your whole list. It is a fact that in this game it is hard to win a 300 pt. game with a 200 + figure. So it’s not just Green Scar it’s his whole point range your against. You just like saying figures that have high damage and high point costs are overrated. However you’re not saying anything more that a team with 5 or 6 good pieces in 300 pts. will beat a 2 figure team.

Lamp Batman – Give this man a protected and he is a major killer. The best batman to date. Not only is he in stealth on buildings, but he has a whole dial of willpower. So he can just jump around using outwit and his 6 range. Then if someone wants to base him he has flurry and if someone hits him he gets better and has flurry with an 18 dv and 4 damage.

I see two figures on your list that you can make a case for, 1 figure that is too old to rate and 2 very good figures.

Not to end on a bad note I thought your Fixing HeroClix thread was very well done and I'm normally a fan of your articles.

Look in the Trading forum for this.