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…and here’s the last lull period we’re going to get for awhile. In a couple weeks, I’ll start dropping ETERNALS dials, which will likely bleed into HAWKEYE, which will probably overlap SPIDER-MAN: NO WAY HOME. I doubt I’ll see that one in theaters, given the character’s popularity, the time of year it’ll drop, and the state of the pandemic, but we’ll see.
So in the downtime, I wanted to thank all of you from the bottom of my heart. You’re all so awesome, so passionate, and so great with the rules and accuracy that I swear these sets leap in quality with all of your comments, feedback, and conversation. It’s always a joy to hear from you all. MAJOR THANKS to everyone who’s commented, in no particular order…
And of course, just as MAJOR THANKS to everyone who peeks in to check out the feed from time to time. I see you there, and I’m always grateful for that.
Dunno if you’re interested, but a couple years back, I read through all of the Eternals comics available to make a primer set for the movie, talking about the major characters, factions, and ideas at play. If you’re not too squeamish about my older dials, it’s still available here.
… DOUBLE POWER: Once per game, note all characters' and items' positions and exchange the map with one of Ultron's choosing. If characters would be in illegal squares, their controllers move them to the nearest legal space.
…
Recently, I was thinking about interesting gimmicks for a dial that hadn’t been done before. This exact idea was the main one. I thought of it as a way to represent time manipulation on a grander scale, or group teleportation.
As the latter, I thought it might work on a Cloak dial (with his feat from Civil War).
I had more or less decided that it was too big a hassle to have in a game, but I gotta say, it works perfectly for this version of Ultron. Love it!
The rest of the dial is also appropriately imposing.
Recently, I was thinking about interesting gimmicks for a dial that hadn’t been done before. This exact idea was the main one. I thought of it as a way to represent time manipulation on a grander scale, or group teleportation.
As the latter, I thought it might work on a Cloak dial (with his feat from Civil War).
I had more or less decided that it was too big a hassle to have in a game, but I gotta say, it works perfectly for this version of Ultron. Love it!
The rest of the dial is also appropriately imposing.
Haha many thanks, friend! I spent the entire Ultron vs. Watcher fight twisting in my seat, just wondering how in the blazes I was going to translate Ultron's infinite power and reality hopping to Clix. Ultimately that trait and the free Smoke Cloud & Barrier were the closest I could get, short of just allowing constant map-swapping.
Glad to hear that it feels right and that great minds were thinking alike.
Be careful online, folks. Variety's critic dropped a major ETERNALS casting spoiler on twitter and it's already spread like wildfire.
I've got it below if you want to see it:
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
Harry Styles as Starfox
EDIT: Please spoiler-gate if you want to discuss the character until the film's release, just in case folks want to remain unspoiled. Just use["spoiler]["/spoiler"] without the quotes C:
Be careful online, folks. Variety's critic dropped a major ETERNALS casting spoiler on twitter and it's already spread like wildfire.
I've got it below if you want to see it:
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
Harry Styles as Starfox
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
Whoa. I am shocked to see arguably one of Marvel's most...icky..."heroes" getting to make the jump to the MCU. Like, Purple Man is also gross but is a supervillain and was in a "Rated MA" Netflix show. I had sorta assumed that Starfox was totally off-limits.
Whoa. I am shocked to see arguably one of Marvel's most...icky..."heroes" getting to make the jump to the MCU. Like, Purple Man is also gross but is a supervillain and was in a "Rated MA" Netflix show. SQUABBLER EDIT:
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
I had sorta assumed that Starfox was totally off-limits.
Could you please spoilergate that? Just until the film comes out, if you don't mind C:
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
Yeah, Starfox is an odd choice, considering his comic history and powers. That said, I can see where it makes sense in the lore. Connecting the earthbound Eternals to their cosmic brethren broadens the story possibilities and creates a "why did you kill our Thanos" conflict. Maybe the sequel will be Earth Eternals vs. Titan Eternals?
Kevin Feige also seems to love the 80s & 90s Avengers, and this could be a way to facilitate that.
haha also, depending on how quickly Starfox is active in the MCU, maybe he appears in the She-Hulk series in a story echoing that arc in the comics
Could you please spoilergate that? Just until the film comes out, if you don't mind C:
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
Yeah, Starfox is an odd choice, considering his comic history and powers. That said, I can see where it makes sense in the lore. Connecting the earthbound Eternals to their cosmic brethren broadens the story possibilities and creates a "why did you kill our Thanos" conflict. Maybe the sequel will be Earth Eternals vs. Titan Eternals?
Kevin Feige also seems to love the 80s & 90s Avengers, and this could be a way to facilitate that.
haha also, depending on how quickly Starfox is active in the MCU, maybe he appears in the She-Hulk series in a story echoing that arc in the comics
This movie is still one I'm digesting. I think my overall impression is that it's on the weaker side of the MCU - it wasn't actively bad like The Dark World, and its worst bits aren't as offensively bad as, say, Age of Ultron or Iron Man 2. To have it as the worst-reviewed movie in the MCU feels a lot like expectations from Critics (who wanted Nomadland and got a Marvel movie with prettier lighting) was the thief of their joy and created some unfair criteria. But there's definitely some flaws in the flick.
MAJOR SPOILER for the plot, if you haven't seen it:
The Good:
- All the cast did great. Sersi ended up a bit wooden but that's no fault of Gemma, and everyone else was full of fun.
- Special shout-out to Richard Madden for bringing a lot of nuance and depth to Ikaris and making him one of the most fascinating "villains" in the MCU. We've had scant few villains who truly believe they're on the right side of history, and Ikaris doesn't just believe that but sells it.
- This is legitimately one of the most visually striking MCU movies. Chloe did her usual impeccable work with lighting and scale.
- Huge inroads for representation made me smile. As a disabled person (although one very different than Deafness), I loved Makkari. I don't identify with other stuff, but imagine that seeing the MCU's second interracial relationship (that doesn't involve one person being painted green at least) and first same-sex relationship among main characters was also valuable and meaningful.
- There's lots of really great character choices in the film that make it "feel" different. In particular, really appreciated Gilgamesh being this nurturing chef and devoted lover as well as a fearsome warrior and Kingo being surprisingly thoughtful in his ultimate neutrality after spending most of the film as comic relief.
- Our two end credit scenes both made me extremely excited for what comes next, cheesy PS2-era CGI for Pip the Troll be darned. I went from "nervous" to "intrigued" by Starfox immediately especially since they really are going to loop Thanos in as an Eternal/Deviant, and was also excited to see the potential of Blade and Black Knight teaming up even though we only hear and don't see Mahershala Ali. It's tough when we've "seen it all", but this was the most wowed I've been by an end credits sequence since "I'm here to talk to you about the Avengers Initiative". (caveat; have some spoilers from this thread and Reddit, but haven't seen Shang-chi yet )
THE BAD:
- Holy exposition, Batman! The opening of the film and the extended monologue from Arashim to Sersi about his motivations felt especially clunky and momentum-killing.
- Already alluded to it, but Sersi felt pretty wooden to me. If she's supposed to be "the leader" now, it doesn't read that way and that ultimately undercuts any message the film is trying to make about feminism, compassion, and growth being the better path than masculinity and the aggression and "status quo" that come with it.
- Speaking of - like a lot of Marvel Movies with a pretension to be more than a popcorn flick or tie-in, this movie feels like it has some things it wants to say...but it doesn't stick the landing, and I'm not sure I can even articulate big-picture themes. And while I acknowledge I could have missed it, it doesn't feel like the film is just being really subtle, like Captain Marvel, or introducing themes to say "this is bad" without landing anywhere else (like Black Widow and Black Panther) - I'm just lost at what it's trying to say at all.
- At the same time, this movie is pretty overstuffed. I'm not sure what the fix is, but it made all the characters feel pretty thin. Some of that is okay in that I'm just eager for more (Kingo, Gilgamesh, Thena, Phastos, and now Black Knight, Starfox, and Pip thanks to the end credits); for others we get so little time that it leaves me wondering what they were up to for hundreds of years in a way that distracts from the film (Ikaris, Druig, and especially Makkari who apparently just hung out on their ship for centuries, all by herself???) or that leaves their motivations too thinly sketched (Sprite's sudden betrayal of the squad).
- That ending fight sequence was too long, and this from someone who generally enjoys action.
- The deviants feel like footnotes in the film. Krohl (???) gets very little explanation on how/why he can absorb powers and if that comes with absorbing memories? Ultimately, they end up feeling like The Sovereign in GotG - pointless villains, only in the film due to executive orders, there to make action scenes work and sell merch. At a certain point if you squint you see that formula everywhere - the MCU is formulaic - but here the thin nature of the Deviants, their motivations, and their abilities called attention to that formula more.
Whew, that was a lot to process. I'm again pumped to see and hear your thoughts as someone who is a much, much bigger Eternals fan than I .
This movie is still one I'm digesting. I think my overall impression is that it's on the weaker side of the MCU - it wasn't actively bad like The Dark World, and its worst bits aren't as offensively bad as, say, Age of Ultron or Iron Man 2. To have it as the worst-reviewed movie in the MCU feels a lot like expectations from Critics (who wanted Nomadland and got a Marvel movie with prettier lighting) was the thief of their joy and created some unfair criteria. But there's definitely some flaws in the flick.
MAJOR SPOILER for the plot, if you haven't seen it:
The Good:
- All the cast did great. Sersi ended up a bit wooden but that's no fault of Gemma, and everyone else was full of fun.
- Special shout-out to Richard Madden for bringing a lot of nuance and depth to Ikaris and making him one of the most fascinating "villains" in the MCU. We've had scant few villains who truly believe they're on the right side of history, and Ikaris doesn't just believe that but sells it.
- This is legitimately one of the most visually striking MCU movies. Chloe did her usual impeccable work with lighting and scale.
- Huge inroads for representation made me smile. As a disabled person (although one very different than Deafness), I loved Makkari. I don't identify with other stuff, but imagine that seeing the MCU's second interracial relationship (that doesn't involve one person being painted green at least) and first same-sex relationship among main characters was also valuable and meaningful.
- There's lots of really great character choices in the film that make it "feel" different. In particular, really appreciated Gilgamesh being this nurturing chef and devoted lover as well as a fearsome warrior and Kingo being surprisingly thoughtful in his ultimate neutrality after spending most of the film as comic relief.
- Our two end credit scenes both made me extremely excited for what comes next, cheesy PS2-era CGI for Pip the Troll be darned. I went from "nervous" to "intrigued" by Starfox immediately especially since they really are going to loop Thanos in as an Eternal/Deviant, and was also excited to see the potential of Blade and Black Knight teaming up even though we only hear and don't see Mahershala Ali. It's tough when we've "seen it all", but this was the most wowed I've been by an end credits sequence since "I'm here to talk to you about the Avengers Initiative". (caveat; have some spoilers from this thread and Reddit, but haven't seen Shang-chi yet )
THE BAD:
- Holy exposition, Batman! The opening of the film and the extended monologue from Arashim to Sersi about his motivations felt especially clunky and momentum-killing.
- Already alluded to it, but Sersi felt pretty wooden to me. If she's supposed to be "the leader" now, it doesn't read that way and that ultimately undercuts any message the film is trying to make about feminism, compassion, and growth being the better path than masculinity and the aggression and "status quo" that come with it.
- Speaking of - like a lot of Marvel Movies with a pretension to be more than a popcorn flick or tie-in, this movie feels like it has some things it wants to say...but it doesn't stick the landing, and I'm not sure I can even articulate big-picture themes. And while I acknowledge I could have missed it, it doesn't feel like the film is just being really subtle, like Captain Marvel, or introducing themes to say "this is bad" without landing anywhere else (like Black Widow and Black Panther) - I'm just lost at what it's trying to say at all.
- At the same time, this movie is pretty overstuffed. I'm not sure what the fix is, but it made all the characters feel pretty thin. Some of that is okay in that I'm just eager for more (Kingo, Gilgamesh, Thena, Phastos, and now Black Knight, Starfox, and Pip thanks to the end credits); for others we get so little time that it leaves me wondering what they were up to for hundreds of years in a way that distracts from the film (Ikaris, Druig, and especially Makkari who apparently just hung out on their ship for centuries, all by herself???) or that leaves their motivations too thinly sketched (Sprite's sudden betrayal of the squad).
- That ending fight sequence was too long, and this from someone who generally enjoys action.
- The deviants feel like footnotes in the film. Krohl (???) gets very little explanation on how/why he can absorb powers and if that comes with absorbing memories? Ultimately, they end up feeling like The Sovereign in GotG - pointless villains, only in the film due to executive orders, there to make action scenes work and sell merch. At a certain point if you squint you see that formula everywhere - the MCU is formulaic - but here the thin nature of the Deviants, their motivations, and their abilities called attention to that formula more.
Whew, that was a lot to process. I'm again pumped to see and hear your thoughts as someone who is a much, much bigger Eternals fan than I .
Looking forward to chatting about this one too!
Speaking in brief, I basically agree with all of your "The Good" points. This was a 9/10 film for me, the most I've loved an MCU film since... ::checks notes:: CAPTAIN MARVEL. This one pretty much lived up to my expectations, even if it didn't fully match my hype.
I agree with a few of your "The Bad" points too, chiefly in that I could see where at points the exposition could be polarizing (I got emotional during Arishem's explanation, but agreed that it overstayed its welcome), that the final fight scene goes on too long (Kro's interruption diluted it in a way I didn't appreciate), and that the Deviants didn't feel to be used to their full potential. Will definitely be talking about that more later.
But yeah, easily the best two mid & post credits sequences in SUCH a long time, both clearly pointing to the ways these worlds will branch out. Damn exciting stuff.
Beyond that, currently working on dials and thinking how to approach the discussion. Haha had hoped to start posting dials tomorrow, but I'm admittedly pretty tired. They might not go live for a little bit.
Following writer/director Chloe Zhao’s success with SONGS MY BROTHER TAUGHT ME and THE RIDER, Kevin Feige pitched her BLACK WIDOW to direct. She counter-pitched THE ETERNALS.
That -and that her next film is a sci-fi, post-apocalyptic Dracula movie- tells me a lot, chiefly that she is a genre fan and that she’s not afraid of the esoteric and complex. That’s very cool, especially for a prestige director whose previous 3 films including NOMADLAND were intimate, human stories with sweeping vistas and towering scale. With that background and her demand to film on location and on actual sets, Zhao was clearly going to deliver something very different to the MCU. Early in production, all signs pointed to this being Marvel’s first (intentional) Oscar-bait film.
However, mixed and negative reviews began pouring in, making this Marvel’s worst reviewed film to date and currently its only “rotten” film on Rotten Tomatoes. The film has been divisive to say the least. We’ll crack into why as we go along.
Personally, I felt this was among the strongest MCU movies and easily one of my favorites. It had robust characters, excellent performances, rich themes, a distinctive score (it’s crazy how few MCU movies have that), and awe-inspiring visuals. Sure, it’s got some shag -the exposition is a little more obvious here than it was in SHANG-CHI (where I thought it was omnipresent) and the Deviants don’t get a fair shake, but it’s a solid 9/10 from me.
Salma Hayek’s Ajax the prime Eternal is key to understanding much of the film, which revolves around ideas of agency in a heightened understanding of the universe. What does God (or other peoples' god) say we should do? How do we know if we’re doing the right thing? What if God’s decree contradicts our own morality? What do we do with our time on this planet? How do we use our gifts to help others, if we do at all? What does it all mean? These are all questions the Eternals ask themselves throughout the film, and pointedly, that question is reflexive for the audience. These are questions every human being eventually asks themselves, and it’s the embrace of those questions that incur change in us. Same for the Eternals.
Ajak, matriarch of the Eternals and speaker of the Celestials, recognizes those questions when they arise in her charges throughout their journey and at the apparent end of their mission. With nothing but love in her heart for the Eternals, she bids them to find their own purpose and happiness until they’re eventually rewarded when the Celestials return. It’s striking that she bears a priestly appearance, knows what’s ultimately going to happen (the emergence destroys the planet and everyone on it), and has her own doubts about the mission’s morality. Taken for its religious and existential allegories, every leader who professes to know it all has doubts.
#069 Ajak
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0
Points: 20
Keywords: Eternal, Herald, Ruler, Past
6
10
20
0
6
10
19
0
6
10
19
0
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
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KO
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KO
Form the Uni-Mind!: DOUBLE POWER ACTION: Once per turn for every character with this ability, you may modify a character's Combat Stats by +1 for each friendly character with the Eternal Keyword and make an Action for Free. Arishem's Speaker: Leadership. POWER: Choose an adjacent friendly character and roll 1d6. Heal that character equal to half the result.
Gemma Chan’s Sersi is THE ETERNALS’ protagonist, and its through her that we see the greatest, most passionate embrace of life on Earth through her outreach and love for humanity. She genuinely loves being among them and sharing in their cultures. That same passion is echoed in her romance with Ikaris and Dane Whitman -like Ajak, she is a character defined by her passion and love, and I believe that’s why Ajak chooses Sersi as her successor; not for her considerable power or her dedication to the mission (the latter of which is why Ikaris, the comic book leader, was passed over), but for her love for Earth, its inhabitants, and all they can be, good and bad. To that end, I think Chan’s Sersi is fine and carries those thematic ideas, but lacks the big personality of her OG comic self. Arguably, she could’ve had more of that here.
Much has been made of Sersi & Ikaris’ sex scene, the first of its kind in many years for the stereotypically eros-free (lol, see what I did there?) MCU. That scene is so important because it’s an echo of Sersi’s connection to love. Like, this isn’t screwing, but love-making. Leading up to and following it, the connection between her and Ikaris is tender and intimate, as will be her connection to the planet. Likewise, returning to that spot later in the film emphasizes the intimacy that Ikaris an Sersi share. In a film where everyone talks about their loves (eros, philos, agape, and more), their love-making is specific to them, as is their final confrontation on Tiamut’s hand. I don’t know if I buy Ikaris standing down if not for how close we’ve seen him and Sersi be through the millennia and especially in their moment together.
Arishem’s exposition dump to Sersi is among the most blatant in the MCU, and it goes on for longer than necessary, transitioning from the particulars of the mission to the Celestial life cycle, to the nature of the Eternals, and to the nature of the Deviants. I don’t think it’s bad -and exposition like this is certainly common in the MCU- but I’m sure breaking it up into parts would’ve made it smoother to absorb for many. I personally didn’t have a problem with it, but it did momentarily break my immersion.
#070 Sersi
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6
Points: 45
Keywords: Eternal, Mystical, Scientist, Past
7
10
18
1
7
10
18
1
7
10
17
1
6
10
18
1
6
10
17
1
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
KO
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KO
Form the Uni-Mind!: DOUBLE POWER ACTION: Once per turn for every character with this ability, you may modify a character's Combat Stats by +1 for each friendly character with the Eternal Keyword and make an Action for Free. Transmuting Inanimate Objects: Friendly characters deal +1 damage when equipped with an Object or making Object attacks. Opposing characters deal -1 damage when equipped with an Object making Object Attacks. Chosen for a Reason: Telekinesis, Incapacitate, and Barrier. Smoke Cloud, and after placing tokens, Sersi may deal 1 penetrating damage to each opposing character occupying one of those squares.
It’ll b interesting to se how your Eternals dials differ from the upcoming Wizkids versions
Haha I'm SO excited for that set. Literally dreamt about playing it last night.
My guess is that the official dials will be somewhere between RAGNAROK & BLACK WIDOW's dials. More comic-accurate than not, a pinch of movie speculation for the more obscure characters, and most of them unified by a quasi team ability trait.
Mostly I'm hoping for point-efficient dials, maybe maxing at 100 points, one 300-point tentpole, and really, really good Deviants. If there's a good chance we'll never see the Deviants dialed again, I want each one to be a goddamn dynamo.
The thing about THE ETERNALS is that everyone gives surprisingly subtle performances, especially Ikaris and Sprite.
We know from Arishem’s exposition that the Eternals are machines, and Richard Madden’s Ikaris is emotionally the closest to one. His connection to the other Eternals is distant and strained; his only connection to humanity is through Sersi; he doesn’t have strong self-awareness for humor; and upon learning the true nature of the mission, he’s determined to enact it. Sersi is the only person for whom he feels real emotion, and that’s what makes the will they/won’t they nature of their relationship and his ultimate decision interesting. Madden communicates all that through Ikaris’ expressions and actions.
Likewise, Ikaris spends the whole film as a double agent, hiding his murder of Ajak as he stalls his cohorts from preventing the Emergence. Everything about is presence is tense and measured as he orchestrates and obfuscates.
Ikaris’ subsequent betrayal of the team feels huge and momentous, especially considering his relationship with Sersi and to a lesser extent the others. This isn’t so much another evil Superman, but a philosophically opposed Superman. And holy crap, the fight scene is incredible. Like, genuinely better than JUSTICE LEAGUE’s Superman fight, mostly because it has a much better sense of timing -especially between Makkari, Ikaris, and Kro.
The only dull note there, for me, is that Kro interrupting the fight feels like one note too many, especially as it relegates Thena to a “give her something to do” fight, but we’ll get there.
#071 Ikaris
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 7
Points: 100
Keywords: Eternal, Brute, Herald, Past
11
11
18
5
10
11
18
5
10
11
18
4
9
10
17
4
9
11
18
4
8
11
18
3
8
11
18
3
7
10
17
3
KO
KO
KO
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Using the Deviants: Ikaris doesn’t break theme on Deviant-themed teams, but cannot use Theme Team Probability Control. Advancing the Emergence: Friendly characters can use Colossal Stamina, but every time they do, award the opposing teams 20 Victory Points each. Form the Uni-Mind!: DOUBLE POWER ACTION: Once per turn for every character with this ability, you may modify a character's Combat Stats by +1 for each friendly character with the Eternal Keyword and make an Action for Free. Annihilation Beams: Damage from Ikaris' ranged attacks cannot be reduced.