Nope. Never. Why do you ask......?

Not sure if I should've started a new thread for this but am I to understand that with stunning blow the incapacitate comes last, thus making the whole action illegal if they use their protected to push? If they have 2 tokens how can you do incapacitate? I've gone cross-eyed.

If you use Stunning Blow on a character that doesn't have any tokens, and that character uses Protected, the character will take no damage from the attack (Protected prevents the damage). However, the use of Stunning Blow adds a token to the character and the use of Protected adds another token. So, unless the character has Willpower/Power Cosmic TA/Quintessence TA, it will take a click of pushing damage from having two tokens applied. Clear so far?

Now, if the character being targetted already has one token in place and is targetted with a Stunning Blow, it can still choose to use Protected (since it doesn't yet have two tokens). The damage is still ignored from the attack, but the character will again take pushing damage due to the two tokens. The third token that would've come from the Stunning Blow is simply lost (you could place it on the character if you wanted, I guess, but it would serve absolutely no purpose).

With regards to your question about two tokens and Incapacitate, nothing in the Incap description says that you can't target a character with two tokens... it simply says that you add a token to characters with zero or one existing tokens. Normally, it would be pointless to Incap a character with two tokens, but if you are using Stunning Blow (which also deals the character's unmodified damage) and if the character has multiple targets, you may be trying to do something like damaging the character with two tokens and place a token on another character. Does that help?

Hey all, I have to say that this ruling on Stunning Blow/Protected seems really questionable, regardless of how it was ruled. The card says when "the character makes a successful attack with incap" (which gives an action token), in addition to the effects of the incap, deal the unmodified damage value. "In addition" are the two key words here, which imply on top of (or second).

This seems very straightforward,
the incap attack is successful ----> the action token for incap is given ------> the damage is dealt.

The only reason I can see that this would be otherwise would be if action tokens are ONLY added at the end of an action, which I don't think is true, because the action tokens for CSA are added when the Prob Control is used (during another action), correct?

Maybe I'm missing something, but this is the way I've thought about the use of Stunning Blow, so this is kind of surprising to me. So yes, the reasoning behind this would be of great interest to me! I know I'm about 3years behind, but I'd still like to hear why the action token is added after the damage.

Basically, the token isn't added after the damage is dealt; it is added at the same time. And since Protected can be used to ignore the damage, the token from Protected is also added at the same time. In essence, we've got a lot of simultaneous effects and the ruling came down on the side of Protected. Simple as that

Aha! Simultaneous effects, I can get behind that, so I appreciate the help on the logic process. I still would have thought the token came first just from the way the card reads, but simultaneous effects are just as good. I thought I was going crazy, so this explanation helps a lot!

How about with that CSA prob control TA? The token is added immediately to the character you choose to give the token to, right? If not, there could be some abuse of it you are running an-all CSA team, using multiple prob controls per turn.

CSA is an exception to the rules and causes quite a few timing issues... Even then though you can still only use it once per turn b/c it grants the Probability Control power which allows you to reroll once on your turn and once on an opponent's turn. So even if you have 500 pogs to assign actions to you can still use it only once on your turn.

I was thinking of a full team of CSA, say Owlman, Johnny Quick, and Super-Woman (which should allow 3 prob controls per turn if they all have the proper line of sight). Let's say you have a bystander token (Lian Harper) with one action token.

JQ makes an attack, and misses, wants to use PC, and give a token to Lian Harper. Is the token given immediately (it should be)? JQ misses again, so Owlman uses his PC, can he give the token to Lian Harper, or is she already pushed to death because of the token from Johnny Quick???

In this case, the timing of the tokens would be of huge importance, because otherwise, the CSA team members could give her say 4 tokens instead of just 1. If the tokens are handed out as the pc is used, there would be no source of abuse, which is probably how it works (I hope).

If the tokens are only actually placed when the original attack action is over, then you could theoretically give Lian Harper 3 action tokens, which of course would ko her. I think the CSA pc action token is given immediately, otherwise this could be a huge source of abuse, when running a CSA team with more than 3 CSA members.

CSA tokens are given immediately when PC is used, and can only be placed on characters with 0 or 1 action tokens. So once Lian has two tokens, she cannot be given another from the CSA TA, and she will be KOed once the action is over when push damage is normally dealt.

Yeah, that's what I thought about the timing of the CSA tokens. But Lian Harper would only be KO'd once the ORIGINAL attack/action is completed, and not when she gets her 2nd token from the CSA ability?

I don't think it would ever matter when she is actually KO'd, but I will remember to KO her at the end of the original action, not when she gets the 2nd token.

Like I said before though, that would have been a HUGE CSA abuse loophole if you only added the CSA pc token at the end of the action.

Pushing damage is always dealt at the end of an action. The action isn't over until the entire attack has been resolved.

Thanks everyone, Quebbster and Normal and all. It's funny how a Stunning Blow question answered some questions about the CSA Team Ability!