There's so much that happened in Frontline that should have appeared in the main book. Unlike the other crossover books FL is definite mandatory reading in order to appreciate what CW was really all about.

And more than anything it has revealed to me one important fact: the Illuminati are the most dangerous people of all. Iron Man and Reed Richards especially. They fight dirty on a level even Dr. Doom wouldn't touch and they do it all in the name of the better good. I cannot wait for Hulk to come back and start taking out the trash.

Not to mention that according to The Illuminati issue 2, they each have possession of an Infinity Gem.

CW 11 was a good ending, to an otherwise POS series. If they had left it at 10 issues as was originally intended, it would've ended badly. Issue 11 saved the series some face.

yep. but I'm a little confused. WHEN will really ends Civil War. with all the crossovers and bad shiping times I'm lost. what is missing?

You cant represent every single person. Cap stands up for what he sees is right. And he does have alot of personal experience with the downtrodden and people who are forced into situations with no options. It all comes down to whose side you believe in more. Hes not blindly fighting for anyone. He is doing what hes always done. Hes standing up for what he believes in and people are rallying behind him. The reporter was just being a stinky tuna. She just went through some stuff and now shes all jaded and blah blah blah. Her story bores me.

Cap is following his path. Hes at least made a decision.

Snipped down your text to the core of my follow-up, but good points all around. I definitely agree that, rather than going underground, an ideal situation for Cap would have been to create a public anti-registration identity, as I feel that he could have been better accepted by the people, and especially the media. Once he goes rogue, the media spins it to convince the common person that Cap is fighting for the wrong cause, never really giving a reason why, but then again most people didn't ask for one. Had he gone public, as you suggested, he could have worked within the boundaries of the law and opposed it with enough coverage as to potentially gain other public support to his side.

The one problem I see with him trying to go public was the initial encounter with SHIELD. They immediately began taking pot-shots at Cap, sending his possibilities out of control. He made some public announcements from then on, but by that time, SHIELD had already tried taking him down a couple of times, so running was the only choice he had to maintain his resistance.

-S

true but you do need to understand who your fighting for.
its fine that cap took a stand I can see his point but its the how he choose to fight the issue that was the problem

No, fighting Registration the way he did was not the best solution but after reading FL11 it's clear that it was the only solution Cap had other than rolling over. Cap was a pawn, plain and simple. The problem was he didn't play his role like Iron Man had hoped.

I don't know if I can say this enough, but FL11 should have been the definitive epilogue to CW. As a separate piece from the main book I think far too many people are going to overlook it. In fact, FL more than any of the other crossover books is practically essential reading to truly grasp what happened in CW. I guess it's a good thing Marvel is so gung ho on TPBs lately.

I interpreted her comments as venting frustration. Nothing she said to Cap was of any meaningful relevance but it did have a purpose. Iron Man had devised a devious deception in order to regain the public trust in superheroes. But simply bowing down to a totalitarian law is something you cannot do when your name is Captain America. Sally knew all of this and I'm sure that's why she was so upset. She couldn't fault Cap for fighting for what is right especially since he was painted into a corner. But if Cap had simply surrendered in the beginning Tony's little ruse would have worked perfectly and there would never have been a CW.

That's why she gave both Cap and Tony such a hard time. Cap for screwing up the plan and Tony for putting it in motion in the first place. It's also why she didn't reveal the truth to Cap and why she won't expose Tony for the traitor he is. So much has already been lost because of a lack of communication between Cap and Tony that to expose it now would mean everything that has happened was for nothing. That's a big secret to keep so I can see her needing to mouth off a little just to blow off some steam.

The anti-reg side is about liberty, and that's what Cap's about. It's the same as gun control.

It isn't whether one has powers, it's what one chooses to do with them. Anti-reg is about choosing be an agent of the goverment or a free agent. That's an easy choice for cap. He'll work with/for the government, but he's his own man, and it's okay for others to make up their own minds as well.

The trouble comes when the gov't denies someone the right to choose. Does the citizen stand against the gov't to protect the rights of the people, or does the citizen submit to the will of the gov't?

For cap, it's always going to be about liberty. That's why I like cap.

Registration was a sham.

Under Tony's management the act only gave the illusion of totalitarian control when really they were doing pretty much anything they wanted. Therein lies the dark irony of CW. If Cap had surrendered from the start he'd have been doing more for superhuman liberty than fighting would have and no one would have been killed. I'm not saying he shouldn't have fought either, because Registration is definitely unconstitutional. But by doing what was right he inadvertently did what was wrong. Really it's all Tony's fault for being so secretive.

Being secretive and manipulating things for his own agenda is what Tony Stark is all about. He fit right in with the Illuminati. A group of guys who thought they had the right to decide whats best for everyone else. Whats the difference between them and people like Dr Doom and Magneto?

Stark felt he should be making decisions that effect everyone else in the world. He screwed up. Cap knew that was wrong and sttod up and was counted. he was given no choice, but the fight the establishment. They were out for blood right off. They knew he wouldnt roll over and forced him into what happened. We have seen SHEILD force peopl einto thier agenda already. Look at how Wonder Man was Blackmailed and coerced into working for SHEILD.

With the way everything was put together there was no other way things could have turned out. If Stark had been forthcoming with anything then nothing he was trying to do could have happened. And now he's screwed things up so much tha tthey shouldnt be fixed anytime soon. Even by playing a role he screws stuff up. he might not mean i, but others will take up his faux cause. His plan was jsut as bad as the premise for the original X Factor. All they did was fan the flames of mutant hatred. What Stark did has had the same effect. And he has a propaganda machine behind him destroying the reputations of good people. You play a role long enough and its no longer a role, its what you are. You become what you live. And a lie told long enough and loud enough starts to sound like the truth.

In CW#11, how far back in the story does Sally's conspiracy reach?
Does she blame Tony for the legislation? Was that part of the plan?
She seems to be saying that Tony foresaw the division and accurately predicted Cap's reaction. Am I understanding that correctly?

I'm confused about where Tony's plan began. When did he see an opportunity and start riding the wave?

He couldn't have predicted Stamford specifically, but he might have envisioned an event like it, and developed the plan as a contingency. I'm just trying to get the story straight. Thanks for your help.

(I still think it's all a bunch of rubbish, I just want to understand it better.)

Tony Stark is one of that guys who fear and in the same time wish a fatality just for show everybody how right be was/is.

Sinse New Avengers Iluminate he say what someday someone like Spider-Man with do something wrong. He was waiting and wishing.

A lot of people is hungry of power and use that power to say what is for the good of eveybody when they really enjoy to be master of all and everybody. Is like a bad side of a Robin Hood with his people. "I give you everything, and with me you will have everything good, but you must live under my rules and I must be Love and you must do and say werever I want or you are out".

that is what Tony Stark was in Civil War.

If you're looking for specific time he was getting a plan ready in case something like Stamford happened, I would guess in the issues of Amazing Spider-Man when the registration act was being suggested in congress. That's when Tony appeared to still be heavily against it and the catalyst for change hadn't quite occurred. Though as you can see in the Illluminati special, that plan may have been in development for a lot longer if Tony had been fearing for the worst.