Not really sure where you got that from (the Giant part, I mean). Since they exist at all elevations, Giants do block LOF between other elevated characters.

And here's the exact scenario that bothers me about giant figure rules. Elevated shoots to elevated without hindering (grounded) terrain in the way. Elevated shoots to giant without hindering in the way because they are at the elevated level. Grounded figures shoot to elevated without hindering in the way. Yet grounded figures shooting to giant does not discount hindering terrain. At least one of those statements does not make sense.

When phrased the way you did, sure, I agree. However, when you phrase it as, "when a standard character interacts with a Giant, the Giant is considered to be at the same elevation as the standard character," it makes perfect sense.

I personally think that particular way of thinking of the rules is a much simpler way of tracking of things than listing every single possible combination of character/elevation interaction.

Sorry, should have been a little clearer in my statement on giants not blocking LOF between elevated figures. If the Giant is elevated, sure, he blocks LOF normally. However, lets actually look at the Giant rules:

p. 50:
Note that it does not say that the Giants exist at all levels all the time. It mearly states that LOF drawn to or from the Giant character is treated as the same level as the standard character. It does not mention LOF drawn through a square the Giant occupies on a different level.

Also, if we look on page 37:
Note that it specifically mentions Colossal characters, but not Giants (as it does specifically state in the case of LOF between elevated and grounded figs, as I quoted eilier). So, if a LOF from an elevated character to another elevated character passes through a square occupied by a grounded Giant (and nothing else), the LOF is not blocked.




Unless, of course, there is something else I missed......

Personally, I think it's easier to think of it as "giant figure exists on all elevations" then figure out LOF from there. Obviously that's not how it works but it would be simpler. Besides, this has inconsistency with colossal figures, who exist at all level, but can be shot from the ground ignoring hindering.

Not sure what you are saying here. Last I checked, LOF to/from a colossal fig from/to a standard fig is treated as the level the standard fig is on, just as giants.....

Yeah, I haven't owned a rulebook since HT. If I need a real breakdown on the rules then I usually just check my PDFs. But I was lazy in my previous post.

While I am very surprised by that wording, you are quite correct in that it does seem to indicate that Giants would not block LOF under this circumstance. I'd contend that the whole "LOF from a elevated character to a Giant" verbage on page 57 would still apply, you could (and do) make a convincing argument otherwise.

However, I most certainly do not with this:

If Giants do not exist at all elevations, how else do explain their adjacency rules?

So does that mean that a Giant, grounded, that is two squares from an Emerald Empress, elevated, they would be adjacent? That the Empress would need to break as normal? As well as affected by Quake too?

That is precisely what that means.

IIRC (making this a random guess :P) is that if the figures in question (giant, non-giant) have their bases on different elevations then they aren't adjacent. The giant rules were actually reasonably clearly laid out in the DR rulebook (all in one spot even!).

Honestly, I don't have a good logical explanation. Unfortunately, this is one of those time we have to just say "those are the rules" instead of finding logic behind them.

Yes, it would make perfect sense for a Giant to block LOF in this particular case, but the rules simply do not support that. I can only assume that the designers had a reason for it. Why else would they specifically call out Colossal characters and not Giants?

In a similar vein, why do Giants have the extended reach, but colossal figs, which are MUCH bigger, do not? Simply: "Dems da rules"......

I'm just curious since this specific thing occured last night. Where my Atlas & Atom Smasher where both two squares from the corner of elevated terrain. Em. Empress was then TK'd to the corner. She then RS/NB my Colossal Boy & Awesome Andy figs. I had thought she'd need to roll breakaway, but was informed otherwise.

Couple things here:

1. From what I understand of your description, EE would have had to breakaway to do the RS, but she would have been able to PW from there since a) she is a flier and b) the extended adjacency rules do not apply to ranged combat.

2. Due to a mistake in the rulebook, it is easy to mistakenly believe that a breakaway would be nessesary. Let me explain:

First, the rule (Page 49):
However, if you look at the example on the next page, it has a picture of Yellowjacket (grounded) surrounded by several standard figures. Beast is on elevated terrain 2 squares away, yet the example states that that Yellowjacket is not adjacent to Beast because "a line between them crosses elevated terrain."

According to this example, a grounded Giant could never be adjacent to an elevated character because a line will always cross elevated terrain.


As far as I know, this hasn't been errata'd, so the confusion still exists....


EDIT: Found it in the FAQs. The example is, of course, wrong......

For those following the flyer discussion, I moved those posts to thier own thread here.