You don't get a free push. You make an action that would cause a push. You put that token on the card, then you role a die. So you have to roll even for the first token you put on the card.

No you don't

Not quite.

"If there are endurance tokens on this card when the character is given an action, after the action resolves, roll a d6..."

Push is the last thing that is done, so once you opt to put a token on the card rather than push, your action is done.

`Le

Seems my interpretation of the card was wrong. Luckily I'm the only one in my venue who uses this card. Good to know.

In my mind, he can choose to not use that feat all he wants... still doesn't change the fact that there is a token(s) on the card and, when he is done with a non-free action, he must roll.

His choice to use the feat is his choice to take or not take pushing damage. The rest of it is simply a natural consequence of having tokens on the card, irrespective of what he actually chooses to do with the character.

EDIT - In addition, after reviewing the specific timing of the feat, he doesn't really have any leg to stand on. Feats are only turned off during an action (not the entire turn, like optional powers); they resume effect once the action in which they were turned off is completed. And since the roll occurs after the non-free action is resolved, he can choose to not use that feat as much as he likes... it will still be back on once the action is over and he'll still have to roll.

The card doesn't say "Non-free action", it states any action you have to roll.

So if Batman has a token on the endurance card and he uses a free action for Outwit, he has to roll to see if he takes push damage + tokens.

I haven't seen it officially changed, yet. Has it?

It has, in the latest DC E&C:
"Endurance
• Modify the second sentence in the main paragraph to say “If there are endurance tokens on this card when the character is given a non-free action, after the action resolves, roll a d6.”"

Good to know on the eve of Starro.

Back in week 2, I blew through a C Batman trying to use his Outwit after using Endurance - 3 clicks not so pretty...

I think that the rulings have been pretty consistent on this. Double Time gives you a bonus (higher move) with a downside (damage), so it's optional. Mental Shields gives you a bonus (no feedback damage) with a downside (only one target), so it's optional.

Feats and powers that have a negative side effect independent of any benefit aren't optional in that way: Life Model Decoy makes a character unhealable. Lobo's special power makes him unable to carry. Endurance might hurt you when you take an action. These are not downsides that come along with the cool thing, they are purely negative. If they could be turned off, they would never have any effect on the game whatsoever-- because no player would ever leave them turned on. So they are not optional.

Sure it would be nice if this were clearer in the rules, but it is pretty straightforward.

Go, go power gamers!

Shove what normalview said in that Endurance-abuser's face.

But that's just my point -- there hasn't been any rulings at all. So one cannot arbitrarily say that Mental Shields is optional and Life Model Decoy is not. Both gives a bonus, and both gives a detriment.

WK really needs to go in and errata all the old cards.

`Le

I'm actually surprised that Mental Shields was optional. I think the line of thinking was that it was like RCE, and you could not use your extra arrows if you were using the feat, but you still retained them for any other purposes.

Double-Time does not give a bonus to movement. Like Haymaker and Pounce, it allows you to take a special action at the cost of a click, and during that action, your movement is doubled. You don't cancel DT whenever you don't want to take damage, you simply do not use the special action.

WizKids does need to be a lot clearer with their wording and rulings though. Feats should state what parts are optional and what parts are not. Generally though, if the feats are passive and grant positive and negative effects, they cannot be canceled, or at least the negative portion cannot be. You won't find that stated in the rules, but that's how it usually works.

no offense to you.but your words contridict each other...you state that wizkids dosnt need to be clearer...but then you go on to say the "feats" need to state if it is optional o not.the feats are amde by wizkids.so by adding this to the feat they would be clearer on the wording and rulings....sorry....

The card does not say it is optional. As a matter off act, I would rule that it is *not* optional.

The benefit is that you get no feedback damage. The Detriment is that you cannot target more than one character.

Of course, all this is moot since the rule book says that all feats are optional.

`Le

Not quite. You are correct that Haymaker and Pounce are specific kinds of power actions to activate, however this is not true with Double-Time at all.

"When the character is not adjacent to an opposing character and is given a move action..."

That directly implies that it is always in effect, whenever you give the figure ANY kind move action. So, let's say you KO an opponent last turn, and now you want to move closer to a different opponent that is just out of range of your Charge -- well if double-time is in effect then you *have to* take 1 damage when you move closer.

That right there makes the feat a benefit and a detriment. Should it be optional or not? According to the rule book, ALL feats are optional. But I am starting to think that maybe it should say are are *not* optional.

`Le