However, most S.H.I.E.L.D. figures don't do well if they fail the Endurance roll , and actually using the TA will cause a roll. As Quebbster said, Red Hood is probably the most versatile and inexpensive option you'll find. For a few more points and a push, E Taskmaster (Universe or Explosion) gives you just a little more for a highpoint game.


BoT

Wait, so these are all considered pushing damage? So does this mean that Power Cosmic/Quintesence are imune to the the damage of the forementioned feats (Haymaker, Nova Blast, Protected, Double Time, Darkness Within, and Passenger)?

Afraid not. It specifically says so. The example below is From Haymaker:

Choose a character.

Give this character a close combat action targeting a single opposing character. After resolving this action, this character takes 1 pushing damage that ignores Willpower and team abilities.

combine this with the current endurance exploit and you are golden :D

For those of you that don't know currently if your endurance has tokens on it you just "turn it off" at the beginning of every action you take with that figure

so you really can just turn it off thats, just very wrong for so many reasons

yup according to the rules as they are written (and unerrated at this point)

you may "turn off" any feat that is optional (all feats unless otherwise noted on the card/in the FAQ/E&C) and then it returns AFTER the action has been resolved, so if you turn off endurance then you never make the roll, and it turns back on after the action to prevent pushing damage from incap lol

The only part of feats that is optional is getting the benefits.
You can never choose to avoid the drawbacks by cancelling the feat.
Endurance is optional in that you do not have to add a token to the card when you push, but once tokens are there you need to roll after each action.

Good luck convincing your judge of that. We have good precedent for saying that feats are optional except when they aren't. The feedback from Endurance makes no sense if you could just turn it off, so (as a judge) I'd rule that you can't turn it off. (There are already painfully long threads about this.)

The Nova Blast/Endurance combo seems legit to me, and (as a judge) I guess I'd allow it.

With this feat, you don't even need to go with the 'optional except when it isn't' route.

The timing described in the feat text makes it pretty clear that the that the roll occurs after an action is resolved. So a player could choose not to use the feat as much as they want... but when the feat 'turns back on' at the resolution of the action, that just happens to be the same time you'd roll the die. There really isn't any getting around that.

When the character would be dealt pushing damage, you can instead choose to deal no damage to the character and put an endurance token on this card. If there are endurance tokens on this card when the character is given an action, after the action resolves, roll a d6. On a result of 1 or 2, deal the character unavoidable damage equal to the result plus the number of tokens on this card, then remove all tokens from this card.

we had this discussion already in another thread ... feats don't return till the begining of the next action so the feat is off "after the action resolves"

as i said we had this discussion here http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showth...ight=endurance
and it turned into a 2 camps one which reads it one way and one that reads it the other.

if you want to take a look at it like MtG (the game in which they like to base everything) the feat is out of play for the duration of the action, therefore it is not in effect during the "resolution" of the action and doesn't trigger the roll.

The other way is the "spirit" of the game in which this doesn't work, but if this game was about the spirit of it the rule book would be 500 pages of specific character interactions and rulings.

I am trying to think of a specific character card that has a clause like this one but there really isn't another one ...

its kinda like turning of LMD to use Nanobots after i have moved but saying that i can't because LMD has returned ... nothing is back in effect untill after the action is done (i know bad example but its the best i could come up with at the time)

Funny how you've shown you done your research and still come to the incorrect conclusion

LOSH Rulebook, page 40:
A feat assigned to a character is in effect during an action unless the player who controls the character indicates at the beginning of the action that the feat is not being used. The feat resumes its effect immediately following the completion of an action during which it is not used.

The feats that are not used do not wait until the next action (your words) to come back on. The resume effect immediate after the completion of the action during which they were turned off.

Again, because of the timing involved, this a total non-issue.

this is were the two camps come in to me the wording AFTER the completion of an action means that it come back after everything involving that characters action is finished and over with and it returns in that grey area between your action.

your view is it comes back then it rewinds time a little bit and triggers after the fact.

just out of curiosity Normal View, do you have much experience with games other then HC (this sounds so rude but i don't want it too i am just curious lol) my gamer in me tells me that because of my experience with other games that is the way it works, although HC seems to be a case in bad wording and ambiguous implications. Inference plays a big part of this game an i would really like them to clear up the ruling of pretty much everything in this game.

At this point i am playing Devils Advocate, I don;t want it to work this way i just see it as this is the way it works till they fix it

But we know that not everything involving the action is finished at the resolution of the action. For example, pushing damage due to the placement of two tokens always, always, always occurs after the resolution of the action... but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that the push that caused the placement of that second token wasn't somehow related to that action that just resolved

I am saying nothing of the sort. I am saying that, at the resolution of the action, a variety of things can and do occur. Pushing damage due to a second token is taken, effects like Suicide Squad are triggered, and (in this particular case) feats that were not used are reactivated. We also know, due to the wording of Endurance, that the die roll is also made at the resolution of the action. How is that 'rewinding'? Sounds more like simultaneous effects to me.

I don't see it as rude, though I do wonder about the actual relevance. Whether I've played 100 other games or none, the game we are discussing is Heroclix with its own particular set of rules. In fact, experience with many game may even be detriment to the discussion since you may be more inclined to say, "Well, I know it works this way in Star Wars minis, so it should work this way in Heroclix." I am not saying that's what you are doing (or what anyone actually does), but I certainly see enough 'I think this is the way it works' answers to make me suspect that it may be occuring just a little bit

Without accusation to anyone in this thread, I believe this is what is meant when people talk about Rules Lawyering.

Albeit incorrectly, as Normal has made clear, I can see someone arguing for this to work the way they would like with great vigor... and possibly intimidating an opponent into acceptance.

I hope that isn't the case, as I hope the understanding of this feat gets out so that Judges have a swift response to those who would weasel.

Its more just in experiance in rules lawyering and inferenceing :P

but yea i agree pushing happens after resolution, but this is a difference in the resolution and completion of an action, there are all kinds of things that happen after resolving ... applying damage placing tokens etc, but that is before the action is complete. I am not saying your wrong ... more importantly i am arguing for wizkids to publish a "sequence of events guide"
because if they are simultaneous effects the active player chooses the order in which they resolve (not that i can think of anyway that this can be twisted at this point but i am sure one of those evil geniuses out there will lol) as i said i really want you to be right i am just laying down the argument that it could be the other way.

this is th reason why many changes have happned in this game:

-change of charge/RS/HSS and countless other abilities into "power actions"
-change of terminology of pushing damage on feats to unpreventable
just to name the ones i can think of off the top of my head

at the beginning of this game people would say "but why can't my brotherhood figures charge for free?" thus terminology was changed.

to get back to the real point i think there is a difference between after the resolution and after the completion of an action