I recognize that a couple of these quotes are from folks saying that they didn't mind Cheetah's characterization in the JLA episode. That said, I'd imagine all of us, as comics readers, are fans of superheroes because of their heroism?

So imagine your favorite superhero saying one of the following. Gritty anti-heroes need not apply.

I agree that this issue seemed to actually go somewhere. A shame it took them past the half way mark before they started to pick up any momentum with this book at all.
The highlight of the issue for me was DC apparently giving the Batman Beyond universe it's own earth in the multiverse. Let's hope for some Terry crossovers at some point.
I enjoyed Holly and Harely too, but am I the only one who thinks it's really weird that they're getting their own book? I wonder if it'll be a mini or an ongoing. As long as Harley is there I'm interested, it's just funny to me that Batwoman's book isn't out yet and Holly and Harley are making the leap to stardom.

Thanks, I appreciate it when things I say are taken out of context. Relativity is never important in discussions after all.

Just ask Einstein.

Rumour has it that with two issues completely done and ready to go to the printer, it isn't coming out. Which would be part of why Greg Rucka chose to not renew his exclusive contract.

I'm sorry. Was there a context where the broad generalization below

somehow comes across as not completely sexist?

I didn't name-call. I didn't blame. I didn't do anything except point out 3 separate quotes from three separate realmsers regarding their words revealing their attitudes that rape is somehow a "woman's issue." Because, you know, guys don't mind being raped. Or, when women close to them are raped.

So when you give me a context where your words come across as not broadly generalizing a serious humans right issue as being confined to a girl thing, let me know. I'll be here all night.

You mean a generalization about how women are more often the target of rape then men? And because of that, it may be a threat that women are more aware of then men? Yeah, that's completely unfair and off-base. I should have acknowledged that men are just as afraid of being raped as women and Lex and Joker should have been just as angry (or vice versa) as Cheetah.

In the context of a comic book where two men and a woman mention a rapist, it doesn't seem illogical that the woman in that group would be the one most disturbed by being in the presence of a man who preys on her sex.

What I took with issue is you taking small quotes and extrapolating a meaning behind them without any grasp of the person posting it. Considering this is a forum discussing comic books, I wouldn't have assumed such scrutiny and myopia. I'll try to be clearer in the future so I won't have a comment about breast cancer mostly effecting women seem like a comment about how only women care about breast cancer period.

Also, taking a step back and realizing that this problem was sparked by a Justice League comic book seems horribly depressing.

If said woman is a homicidal cannibal who in the past has had no problems whatsoever for working with serial rapist, alround mysogynist and fellow Wonder Woman rogue Dr. Psycho, then logic is hiding under a rock.

Actually, men are probably just as afraid of being raped as women. When guys talk about prison and the deterrent effect of being sent to one, nonconsensual sex rates up there with being killed. Don't believe me? Women's prisons don't trigger the same jokes that male ones do.

And while women are raped more frequently than men, that doesn't mean it somehow takes a higher precedence among women as one of their fears than among men.

Take the stereotype of the overprotective father. What's the underlying fear there? That his little girl is going to run into a really nasty guy out there that may rape her.

And let's say that you're with another man and a woman in a group, like Lex was with Dr. Light and Cheetah. You know that the guy is a known rapist. Are you suggesting that you'll be less aware of that fact than the woman because he's more likely to target her than you?

And again, this is where you're wrong. Because rape shouldn't disturb women more than it does men. That's like saying child abuse should disturb children more than it does adults.

If you'll look again, I didn't post a single identifier behind each of the three quotes. My intent was not to chastise you; it was to make you think, "Oh yeah, that does come across as a bit off."

And since you haven't given me a context where your comment "Women act pretty strongly whenever the rape subject comes up..." could be seen as NOT a broad generalization, I'll reiterate: that's a broad generalization that posits rape to be a "woman's issue," rather than a human rights issue.

Look, I've clearly touched a nerve with you, but let me repeat, I'm not interested in arguing with you. If I showed those 3 original quotes to a sampling of say, 100 women, or, failing that, say, 20 randomly selected women, I guarantee you that a strong majority of them would agree those statements belittled rape and came across as sexist.

But let me make it clear, I'm not interested in pointing fingers and starting fights either. What I'm interested in is in people going, "Huh, I didn't think of it that way." And then moving on from there.

So if you want to play nice, then that's my recommendation. No snarling, no accusations of myopia or what have you. Just a "That's an interesting point. And Captain America or Superman probably wouldn't say something like that."

And you'd be right.

Considering I know very little about Cheetah and Dr. Psycho...there you go. I would think McKeever would know more about them then I, but I guess not. I think he may have just been using her as a mouthpiece for the issue.

I think what's even more damning is Joker being into that kinda thing too. At least I think the Killing Joke is still canon.

I cut that short or this would have probably gone on way too long.

I think you're misunderstanding a lot of what I'm saying. Essentially, my argument boiled down to the average woman being more afraid of being raped then the average man. I'm sure you can give me a dozen specific scenarios to dispute that, but I get the feeling that the further we go the further off track this will get so I'll leave it at that.

With regard to the comic, I was arguing that Cheetah would be less accepting of Dr. Light because he's straight, and Joker and Lex aren't really known for their feminine compassion. Also, the three people I was referring to were Joker, Lex, and Cheetah from the beginning of the story.

Again, my problem is when things are taken out of context and misrepresented. My initial response to you was more of a joke, and you went and insinuated something about me so I got a bit defensive. Perhaps I'm characterizing you as some of the other folks online that I've run into who have taken comments I and others have made out of context, and for that I'll apologize. The last forum I was on for an extended period of time had things "go wrong" right around now. People began to assume the worst of others and some pretty nasty rivalries were formed. I'd rather not see that happen again, much less play a part in it this time. I just thought it was rather unfair for you to take the words of others who are engaged in a conversation and pass a judgement instead of maybe just asking them for a little elaboration as a part of that conversation.

As far as I know, I've never been accused of any sort of sexism on here, and I assumed that would continue to the point where I can use a weak stereotypical generalization to explain the motivations of a character. And as evidenced by Carabas above, I know very little about Cheetah outside of her being a woman with cat powers. Who fights Wonder Woman. When it comes to arguing a motivation that seemed logical to me at the time, I can only go with what little I've got.

For the record, I was trying to play nice, except for the post before this one, though I don't remember snarling. If you really want to see some comments I've made that would come off as offensive, ask MR_JTR. He knows where the bodies are buried.

I think you hit the nail on the head there.

'Oh you evil evil *******! You raped a woman, you're the worst monster in existance!'

'What, I kill and devour them and work with serial rapists like Dr. Psycho? No, that's some other Cheetah, I'm the good nice one'

Yes, we all get Dr. Light is a sick, evil twit. Thank you, I get it. I'm still not sure where that's worse then the Joker (who kills people at random for the hell of it), or Cheetah (who kills and eats them), or the Third Reich ripping kids in half, or Black Adam killing and eating his followers....

I made this long post to comment on this, and my computer went down just before I could submit the post, and I lost it all. Now to try again.



Cheetah's past may have been altered. Recent events, like Infinite Crisis and 52 went a long way in changing some of DC's history. Fact is, everything mentioned that would or could say that Cheetah wouldn't care about a rapist on the team may no longer be counted on as continuty. Ask Jason Todd. He was dead, he came back. Stephie "Spoiler" Brown may also be back from the dead. KC Superman is in the established "New Earth" Universe. Alex Luthor even mentioned that the police did catch Joe Chill, the killer of Batman's parents. Things are not the same anymore.
Yes, Dr Light is still a rapist, obviously. Other villians, not just Cheetah, don't like the bugger partly for that. Even cold blooded killers don't like him, he's scum with powers.
Thing is, Cheetah's past may have been altered, we don't know yet, because they've not gotten around to mentioning it, but it IS possible that she's not the cannibal killing fiend she used to be.
Every argument about how she should react or if she should react at all is no longer viable till we know for sure she's not been changed nor has her history been changed. We dont' really know yet. I'm sure it'll fill in over time.



As for where the bodies are buried... I lost track after awhile. Too many to keep track of. But, there was that now closed thread where JGonspy mentioned he eats babies. All I can add to that is, hey... we all feel a little peckish after sex, but most of us would settle for pizza.

He'd just had sex with them to try to stay warm, but then felt a little peckish. Too bad Domino's wouldn't deliver that far from their store. So, next best thing.
Geez, don't mix the guy up with those others.

Well, that's easily explained as Dr. Psycho doing low-level 'tweaking' (which he was shown to be doing in the Villains United mini) to keep Cheetah from gutting him. And also, Dr. Psycho is not known (at least, to my knowledge) to have raped anyone, though my DC-fu is admittedly weak.

Dr. Light? Has. And frankly, I think it's more likely that a particularly violent woman would take matters into her own hands when convenient for this. The setup was there for her to take matters into her own hands, and she probably would have if Wonder Woman and Firestorm hadn't intervened.

The problem you guys are having, is that you are attempting to apply logic to a scenario that is anything but. Cheetah probably wouldn't go to a rape crisis center to do counseling... but she's probably quite happy to vivisect the schmuck that did it. It's an emotional issue, particularly for women, and logic does not have to apply. Heck, Wonder Woman looked pretty tempted to let Cheetah have at him.

Besides, these are VILLAINS. They backstab and betray each other all the time! Cheetah just had what she thought was a justification to do so.