Ahh the memories.

I think that he should be WAY below Tims skill level. Not only was he the Robin nobody wanted (and I still want my 3 bucks back from DC for that phone call I made to kill him) but Tim Drake has faced the majority of Batmans enemies solo and not been killed. Jason Todd has been murdered by the Joker... TWICE! That's two more times then Tim Drake or Dick Grayson died. TWICE!!!

Well, here's a couple things, I know I'm biased, but the following is all based off of current DC continuity, Batman Annual # 25 is a key source of some of this information:

I only remember Jason getting killed once by the Joker (1989, A Death in the Family), freakazoid, what was the other time? And to be sure, Jason made sure he put the absolute crowbar beatdown on the Joker upon his return, and also fought Batman to a relative standstill, but some of that may have been because of Bruce's horror that Jason had actually returned from the dead.

After Jason was resurrected and was thrown in the Lazarus Pit by Talia, he used her cash and connections to basically go through the EXACT same training that Bruce did. We are not sure how many years this entails exactly, but I am assuming it was years of training. This is in addition to the training Jason actually received from Batman in the first place.

Jason never appeared as a slouch physically, and certainly isn't a physical slouch in his new incarnation. Oh yeah, right now, he's also trying to save the multiverse, while Tim and Dick are doing their things, whatever those happen to be right now. But they can't all save the multiverse, we know that!

On top of that, he crawled his way out of his own grave! That's got to count for some toughness. Without a doubt, it also took great cunning, planning, and some kind of intelligence to not only get under Batman's skin, but basically disrupt all of the organized crime in Gotham City, something that even Batman never really did, because of his aversion to killing. Plus, he stole 100 pounds of Kryptonite, just because he could.

Yeah, I think his dial should at least be the equal of any Tim Drake we've seen, just different, maybe with some more Battle Fury, Willpower, Perplex, Outwit, Exploit Weakness, Super Senses, Combat Reflexes, and those kinds of things. He's also pretty handy with the guns, that's obvious, so maybe multiple targets and a longer range.

A nice feature for a special power for Jason would be: At the beginning of the game, choose one of the following Team Abilities: Batman Ally, Hypertime, Batman Enemy. This character will have the chosen Team Ability for the entire game.

Dick already saved the multiverse in Infinite Crisis, even if he wasn't particularly aware of it at the time.

Tim, meanwhile, is generally regarded as at least as smart as Batman if not more so, just not quite as experienced yet.

And Batman disrupted and pretty much shut down organized crime in the first year of returning to Gotham after his training. It's part of the reason all the crazies in Gotham thrive. There hasn't been a Carmine Falcone or the like since - there's still organized crime, but it's greatly diminished from what it once was.

Power-wise, Todd should be inferior to Veteran Tim Drake. The only thing he might have up on him is slightly better combat values, or slightly more consistent ones.

And...Batman Ally? No, Jason Todd as the Red Hood is nothing of the sort. Batman Enemy is a little more up his alley. Batman Ally is the exact last thing he should have. And if there were ever a character up for multiple team abilities, it sure as heck isn't Jason Todd. Batman (His own, JLA, Outsiders) and Black Canary (Batman Ally, JLA, JSA) leap to mind immediately.

I just had to chime in, for obvious reasons I think he should have either no team ability or maybe a calculator(althought that doesn't make that much sense). He should also have a decent range since he is not afraid to use guns. Wouldn't a click of regeneration be interesting to show the fact that he came back from the dead. I doubt we will see that though.

[quote=brevard321]

Yeah, I think his dial should at least be the equal of any Tim Drake we've seen, just different, maybe with some more Battle Fury, Willpower, Perplex, Outwit, Exploit Weakness, Super Senses, Combat Reflexes, and those kinds of things. He's also pretty handy with the guns, that's obvious, so maybe multiple targets and a longer range.

Exactly!

Well, we will certainly disagree on many aspects of Jason Todd, no doubt. Again, I don't think Tim or Jason should be inferior to each other in any way, just different. Tim may be more intelligent in general, but they are both butt-whooping machines, there is no doubt about that. In general, anyone who has worn the Robin suit has deserved a certain kind of respect, just for being able to put up with Bruce for the most part!!!

With the multiple Team Ability thing, I was kind of referencing the new 60-character set design. In the old system, the Red Hood would definitely have a R Batman Enemy, E Teen Titans or Batman Ally maybe, and V Hypertime, but those days are done. This is a good way to simulate the REV system by allowing the player to choose the TA at the start of the game, a mini-Thunderbolts which would work well on a lot of characters, including the ones you mentioned.

The Batman Ally TA is desirable mostly for the benefits of the TA, rather than him actually being a Batman Ally, but I think in the long run there will be a reconcilation. Regardless, Jason basically has the same goals as Bruce, just a very different MO about them, and essentially won't forgive Bruce for not punishing the Joker for taking Jason away from Bruce. In the past they were close allies (obviously), and I think the Batman Ally TA would represent their similar goals, training, and access to contacts/equipment.

Right now, the Hypertime TA would be the best choice for Jason, but so much depends on which time frame the figure is based on. Is it better to have a super-generalized version, or a very specific version? Personally, I want the Batman Enemy version AND the Challengers of Beyond version. With only one version being made, how do they get either version done right???

LOL. rep for you.

`Le

Villains who hunt down heroes and hold their own against them after plotting for years to beat them aren't really on par with the heroes they've plotted for years to beat.

This is why Batman, who has never been defeated by Superman to my knowledge, still is generally less deadly than superman. One wins by being better, the other wins by careful planning.

The Red hood is inferior to Nightwing, Tim, and Bruce. The evidence is that Jason didn't succeed after years of planning.

Maybe in the high 50's, blades, stealth, maybe energy explosion.

Wait, hold on. WAS "Jason Todd" killed by the Joker?

Please say yes.

Note: this is opposed to Jason Todd, who was killed by the Joker and did not ever, ever come back to life.

Ever.

(Ever)

Really? Those two leap immediatly leap to mind? Not Dick Grayson with Bat ally, Titans, Outsiders, and PD? Or Captain Marvel ith JSA, JLA, Mystics, and the big Q?

If there was any justice in this world, he would only have "KO" clicks.

But just to annoy all the people who voted to kill him, I'm sure he'll be amazing so that we have to see him often.

Can we get a Nightwing instead?

I agree. They must be completetly separate characters. "Jason Todd" has done nothing that Jason Todd would do since he "came back."
You mean Clayface? Cause I remember Clayface fighting Batman. I also remember Batman specifically saying that he fought like Nightwing and didn't ever call him "Bruce" because he wasn't Jason.
How so? Last I heard, he was the worst of all Robins, so much so that people voted to kill him because they hated him so much.

He switched with Clayface mid-battle to give Batman a mind####ing.

Also, Jason as the Red Hood has been pretty badass. He maybe ruthless, but he does have tactic to his ruthlessness.

Also he is like one of the best fighters, not just slightly better than the other too.

That might be a little more than subjective, so you won't change my mind with your so called evidence and comic references.

~Phil

No, I specifically remember Batman saying that he never fought Jason.

The person he fought was using Nightwing's fighting style because he not only wasn't Jason Todd, but he had never even met Jason Todd.

That was Clayface, no matter what Winick tells you.

Not liking what a writer did doesn't mean what they did isn't canon.

I got the issue where Red Hood almost kills Batman, but doesn't. Then takes off his hood and spills it out (edit: that he was on the roof fighting Batman and switched with Clayface). So he did fight Batman.

If you don't want to believe that then it's cool, but it it what it is.

~Phil