The only way to use the CSA PC to put a token on the MC'ed figure is to use the MC'ed figure to roll the dice then use CSA PC to reroll, since you have to use the MC'ed figures action before doing anything else.

Since the Indy rules I believe.

Can you walk them off of elevated terrain? I wouldn't see why not. That's hilarious stuff right there.

LoSH rulebook, page 32: "A character can't 'jump off' elevated terrain unless it has a power, team ability, or feat card that allows it to ignore the effects of elevated terrain on movement."

So no. Just as you can't leap Professor X off the edge of a building and into the fray, he can't mind control others to do it.

Did I say anything contrary to that?

Aww. They take all the fun away from Mind Control, don't they?

what if the mc'ed character has leap/climb which would enable him to walk of a building, but as his controller I turn it off and then walk off? they said "has" not "uses".

It worked for the dad in Firestarter...it should work in HC as well!

Still won't work.

If you want to walk the character off of elevated terrain, you need to use L/C... and if you are using L/C there won't be any damage for doing so.

If you turn off L/C, then the character can't move off of elevated terrain under its own power... and, again, there won't be any damage.

Well just for turds and laughs :cross-eye

lets take at look at what mind controlling actually is and how it is perpetually incorrectly advocated.

That act of mind control is taking over one's mind, thus rendering one unable to think for ones self.
So if I attempt to MC you and succeed, I should have successfully achieved this act (action), and the MC action "should" be completed at this point. At least logically..

Basically what the PAC reads is that I can MC your figure and let it sit there useless, until the game ends due to KOs and no figures remaining, I give it back to you by taking a free action during my turn(s), or I get my MCer outwitted or KOed.

The only stipulations are that I can only MC the # of figures my dial shows as attacks with that MCing figure, and that I lose ownership of the MCed figure WHEN I do something with the MC figure.

So in a sense, Mind control should be allowed to end at the ownership change, just like possession. Otherwise, what is the purpose to even MC if I have to just do something with it right away, instead of when I want to, as written in the PAC.(ie:"can")
At least that's how I read it.

Any action given, during the owning players turn, would be a free action and the ownership would revert back to the original owner and damage taken, on MC. It does not specify that it has to be during the turn the MCing took place tho, only that it can, If I so choose to do so.

That's the best way I can explain what I'm trying to show

But, in beating the dead pony, It is explicitly expressed, However, that the word "can" does not equate optional.

In MC wording on the PAC chart.
"can be" needs to be changed to " must then be"
and "free" needs to be inserted between
"this <free> action" in the next sentence.
In order to support the rulings and explanation that it is not optional and must be done as a whole part of the power/ability to resolve.

Incorrect. The Mind Control action does not resolve until the controlled character(s) performs a free action. Until Mind Control is completely resolved, nothing else may be done... so unless you literally want to sit there staring at your opponent across the board until time is called, this is not ever going to work. And I can tell you that if you even thought about trying to stall that way at my venue (and, yes, that is stalling) you'd be DQ'd so fast your head would spin.

Correct.

Incorrect again. Since the MC action has not yet been completed, your opponent can not Outwit or KO your MC'er so this situation is not going to happen.

Because you can't pass. To reiterate, the MC action isn't complete until the controlled character(s) actually does something. You can't end your turn (pass or otherwise) mid-action.

Possession, meanwhile, is worded completely differently. Other than the fact that both powers let you do something with a character that wasn't included on your team at the start of the game, they really don't have anything at all to do with each other.

You may want to read it again, then

Sure it does...

MIND CONTROL (OPTIONAL): Give this character a power action; it makes a close combat or ranged... as a free action. Immediately upon resolving this action, the target becomes an opposing character to you and friendly to its owner’s force. This character...

Until that bit happens, the Mind Control action hasn't been resolved. You must resolve a current action before you can do anything else that is not specifically described in said action. From the LoSH rules (pages 16-17):

During your turn, you give actions to your characters. When a character is given an action, the action may be used to activate only one effect. If you have more than one action available, you must resolve one action before initiating the next action. Resolving an action includes completing any free actions the action allows.



These changes do not need to be made. See the relevant rules text quoted above.

I hope this helped.

Well, when you're going to Quote something, please include the entire portion of the text.

The missing part says: Each target hit CAN be assigned one action as a free action. Immediately upon resolving this action the target becomes an opposing character to you...

Notice the word CAN? In most usages of English, either butchered or else CAN means IF YOU WANT TO, not HAVE TO

There is also NO directive stating that this free action MUST OCCUR at this time, only that it CAN and when it does the character returns ownership.

I've been round the table on having to resolve an action before doing another one, but the action of MIND CONTROL is simply changing ownership, Nothing more, as indicated by the PAC statement and ended with a period. That's resolving that portion of the action, The free action is simply something that can be done at our choosing according to the wording.

It's funny how devoted some folks are to a set paradigm, rather than open minded to an explanation that clashes against things as they've always been

Just a simple discussion here and mind you it is written that way that I show, how it is manipulated and one's interpretation is one of the ironies of gaming as a whole.

Basic game mechanics. If something is optional, and you choose not to use it, the game doesn't freeze up. You chose not to use the mind control. Goody you. Your turn ends with releasing the character.

Possession does not have to release the character, that's the key difference.

The use of the word CAN in the MC description on the PAC is not to tell you that the free action is optional, it is to tell you what you are allowed to do with the character once you mind control them. If you choose not to use the free action then you wasted the MC, because the free action takes place within the envelope of the MC action.

This is like the free action attack that you are granted during a HSS movement. HSS does not give you a move action, an attack action, and a move action, it gives you a move action during which you have the opportunity to make an attack as a free action.

To look at it like algebra:

(Mind Control action {Free action} )
and
(HSS action {Free attack action} )

Can-schman, the action is not complete and you may not take a different action until the MC action is resolved. Period.

And, as someone stated earlier, if you MC'd a character and just sat there saying "I can doesn't mean I have to", I would also DQ your rules lawyering arse so fast your head would spin

Set paradigm? You, sir, are a rules lawyer and, frankly, a dink.

This is not the right forum for that. This is for rules questions. And if I may be so bold as to point out, Normalview is a long term, well-respected poster who spends an inordinate amount of time answering the same rules questions over and over, helping out both old and new players

Check his post count, rep number and do a quick search here for how many times his name comes up