Good writing! I might take issue with your evaluation of the relative AWESOMENESS of the 143 point Hulk, but with the Green Scar in the very next paragraph... it won't be a big issue.

Quick question: when did a 10 AV become mediocre? I remember (sorry if this makes me sound old) when 8 was an average AV.

Or did you mean 10 was mediocre for Maestro, given his Hulk-ness and point cost?

10 is definitely mediocre considering the cost. For that many points, I want my figure to reliably hit. With 7 being the average roll, but many figures in a similar point range having 18 defenses, Maestro has to roll above average to hit. And that's not a chance I want to take after investing so many points.

As for 8 being an "average" AV, that might be the case if you take all clix everywhere and take a straight up mean. But there's no way I'd consider anything less than a 9 for any figure with even a remote chance of playing an attack role on my team. And even then, a 10 is the bare minimum for any figure that I rely on as an attack piece.

Great Review as always. I love the Green Scar, he is what a hulk should be to me, his point cost seems right to me on all levels and I have had a ton of fun fielding him in games of all point levels.

I know you didn't review NGN Hulk, but he is also great for the point cost for the same reasons that Scar is, good movement attack, decent stats and seems correctly point costed.

I agree with the Mastero, I wish he had a better Special Power that combined with his other powers and stats. He looks nice but is diappointing for the cost to me. Thats what I traded him away.

Most disturbing line in the whole article:
"Instead you have to choose, take your chances with a mediocre 10 AV, or go for a better Attack. "

It saddens me that this line has ever been uttered on this board.

However, good article.

can you tk still with battle fury

Nice review, i did enjoy using gray Hulk. also rampaging Hulk is just a power house.

12 (or better) AV - Exceptional
11 AV - good
10 AV - Average/mediocre
9 AV - Not so great
8 AV - Weak
7 AV - better be a support piece.

Yes you can, you just can't carry them. A figure with Battle Fury cannot be Mind Controlled or carried, also a figure with Battle Fury cannot make a ranged combat attack.

AZS, I agree with you about Maestro. I was merely lamenting a rather obvious bit of power creep, which has nothing to do with your review. Sorry.

I recall strategy articles back in the IC era mentioned 9 as "good" and 10+ as "exceptional". Nowadays Scourge, Echo and the Blackhawks (among others) have raised the average AV among lesser pieces considerably.

This is good, in a way, as the game is now less risky, since more attacks succeed (risk also reduced by the disappearance of the "one hit and they're jelly" pieces from the game). It's also bad, because an 8 AV is now a death toll for a Heroclix character, as in, "Ding dong, enjoy the view from the bottom of my trading bin".

I would actually dissagree with this.
While my memory is notoriously bad, I do specifically recall IC as setting the bar uncommonly high.
It might not have been AV across the board, but the two dominating pieces; V Bullseye and Firelord having 11 & 12 AV's, and 18 defenses, there was no way a 9 was considered 'good.'
I had long arguments with people when HT came out that E Batman was not, in fact, "the ####". Because his 9 AV barely even rated.

Things definately leveled off in the following sets, and sure enough Seth is doing his darnedest to make 9 the average AV, but 10 is still the benchmark, and for higher cost figures even 10 doesn't quite rate.

Thank you for the review my friend!

I really just think they had no ####ing idea what they were doing back then. Vet Firelord had an 18 and an 8 on the same dial (for those not keen enough to remember, really imagine what an 8 defense looks like; its scary). Thanks to the way the dials were back then, even with the crazy numbers up front (oh hi, Thanos! Nice 15!), the average was still about an 8, since most guys sank to a makes-pogs-look-imposing level, with single-digit defense numbers and anywhere from 6's to 4's in the attack slot. I think history has shown (like with the old story of why incap is so expensive on a character) that Wizkids kind of sputtered in the beginning of their test playing, but they found their groove soon after.

I have yet to see any of these Hulks used. I've seen the NGN one used extensively, but nothing on the big guns (granted, this has mostly been 300 point Floor play). Green Scar screams out for Fortitude as so many of his powers are crucial to try to get his worth in a game. Outwit his move-and-attack powers and he can rapidly turn into a pin cushion (granted, this can be said for most all high cost figures, but Scar is one of the few who can potentially really earn his points, thus Outwit seems particularly dangerous). Adding Fortitude to Maestro might also be a good plan, including saving that BF. I could easily see Outwitting his BF to MC him to either move him away from my figures or hit the opposing ones (and nothing surprises an opponent more than outwitting BF on their SS piece and then MC it to throw its object at a friend... they never expect that).

I like the original Hulk's dial. It just makes me sad for the old IC ones. But then the game has come a loooong way in five years. I'll add my support to needing a good Defenders Hulk. Using the IC Exerienced one is a lose-lose situation.

For me the ranking has always been:
8 and less is unacceptable
9 acceptable; unless the fig costs over 150pts a 9 attack isn't enough to make me shy away (not if the rest of the package looks good)
10 is good
11 is great
12 and higher is *yippee!*

Of course I make my teams based on themes and characters more than stats. If I can use a version of a character with a high attack I will endeavor to do so.

For every Thanos or Nightmare, there was also a Henchman or SHIELD Medic. That poor medic: the veteran maxes out at a 6!

I'm talking about the entire set's average AV, and you might just be thinking about tournament-level or "playable" pieces. In which case, fair dinkum.

But look at pieces like Daredevil, Quicksilver and of course Exhibit A is CT Hawkeye. I'd use them as evidence that 8 was considered a middling attack level and 9 a good one. Remember, these were the days when 17 was above-average, wasn't it?