Just my thoughts:

1. Young Supes 100 pts, 8 range, 12ch, 10ss, 18 inv, 4
2. Doom 200pts and all sorts of great stuff, bring some fodder
3. Storm 40pts, 8stl, 10, 17, 2rce, whereever she sits she controls
4. Batman 47pts, lc w/Bats, wp and outwit
5. Thing 100pts of full movement hot dog beatdown, ketchup or mustard?

Just what I think, you could swing the order anyway depending on what your team needed. Excellent idea, how about next time can you do Alpha Bats? (maybe I'll learn how to throw up dials and what not)

Real-life demands have severely limited the amount of time I've spent online over the last couple of days, which is why we haven't seen any updates on this thread lately. Hopefully I'll be able to catch up now...

Last time we spoke I was describing my feelins about the most recent Saturn Girl - that despite having a modern remake with special powers and more than zero damage value, I still preferred the original. Now we've come to one of her team-mates, the surprising Shrinking Violet!


Number Twenty-Three: Shrinking Violet

Experienced Shrinking Violet (Legion of Super-Heroes)
Keywords: Future, Legion of Super Heroes, Spy, Teen
Team Ability: Legion of Super Heroes
Point Cost: 30
Range: 0

8 9 16 2

7 9 16 2

9 9 16 1

7 8 15 1

6 8 15 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

Shrinking Violet was an easter egg in the Legion of Super-Heroes starter set - an unadvertised inclusion, she was a dial without a sculpt, a "hockey puck" like old convention exclusives The Atom and Ant-Man. Shrinking Violet is basically a novelty piece. Stealth and Super Senses give her some attack avoidance, her steady attack values are decent for 30 points, and four clicks of Leap/Climb help her to survive... but she'll find it difficult to actually accomplish much.

Shrinking Violet does have some interesting quirks. She's the cheapest character in restricted with the Future keyword, and so could help round out a thematic team. She's also a Legion wildcard who can be carried, which can be handy for certain team abilities (Superman Enemy, for example). If you have a couple of Shrinking Violets, they allow you to play the chase KC Superman (238 points) as a Future thematic team in 300 points.

However, I'm guessing that the number of people who own two Shrinking Violets and a chase Superman are kinda small. She makes an interesting addition to your collection, but she's not one of the all-time great starter set figures.


Number Twenty-Two: Wolverine

Experienced Wolverine (Universe)
Keywords: Martial Artist, X-Men
Team Ability: X-Men
Point Cost: 41
Range: 0

7 10 15 1

6 9 14 1

6 9 13 1

5 8 13 1

5 8 12 1

4 7 11 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

At a mere 41 points Wolverine is an economical and potentially quite nasty addition to X-Men and Martial Artist teams. There are no wasted points on this dial - no dreaded "Blades/Claws/Fangs with natural 3 damage" here! Wolverine has the bare minimums to represent the character - Stealth for his sneaking up to enemies, Blades/Claws/Fangs for his adamantium claws, two clicks of Regeneration for his healing factor, and an attack value of 10 for being "the best at what he does." Indeed, his dial is very similar to that of Sabretooth, above. So why have I given Wolverine a substantially better score?

It's a question that I asked myself when I compiled this list and noticed that Wolverine was seven places higher than Sabretooth. Part of the reason is the X-Men team ability; I simply feel that it is more useful and more fun than the Brotherhood team ability. Brotherhood helps with deployment, sure; but the X-Men team ability gets your characters back to the clicks they need to be on. With the improvement to the X-Men team ability we're getting in the Fantastic Four powers and abilities card, I'm pretty confident that Wolverine simply is that much better than his evil counterpart.

Secondly, this is Wolverine one of the most popular Marvel characters. Even if you don't like him personally, you have to recognise that he has a lot of appeal. Making popular characters available and playable is very important to keeping new players.

Thirdly, the rankings of this list are a lot closer than you might imagine. It would be very easy to swap any of these characters around by a couple of positions, depending on how you weight various factors. Positions twenty-nine and twenty-two just aren't as far apart as you might assume.


Number Twenty-One: Jean Grey

Veteran Jean Grey (Danger Room)
Keywords: Mutant, Psychic, X-Factor
Team Ability: X-Men
Point Cost: 50
Range: 6

8 9 16 2

8 9 16 2

7 10 16 1

7 9 15 1

7 8 15 1

6 7 14 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

Is Jean Grey a good figure? More importantly for the purposes of our discussion, is she a good starter set figure?

Jean's advantages are obvious. She has Telekinesis to help position your attacking characters and control the battlefield, and a variety of useful attack powers once she's finished doing that. Jean has the standard "telepath" powers - Mind Control, Incapacitate, and Psychic Blast. Unfortuately, she doesn't have them in terribly convenient combinations.

Jean does have some decent attack values with her Incapacitate clicks, but in the middle of her dial there is no guarantee that she'll actually get to use them. Her two Psychic Blast clicks at the end are unlikely to do much good when she suffers from mediocre attack values and a meagre 1 damage value at the time. And Jean lacks any kind of defensive abilities... with a naked 16 defence value and middling 6 range she's an easy target for any enemy who gets close.

So all in all we have a Jean Grey who is functionally similar to the original Jean Grey - she's really only good at TKing characters around. And at 19 points more than the original, she's not the ideal choice for doing so. She'll always do something useful on a team, but she may not always be worth spending 50 points.


Number Twenty: Beast

Veteran Beast (Danger Room)
Keywords: Mutant, Scientist, X-Factor
Team Ability: X-Men
Point Cost: 60
Range: 0

8 9 16 2

8 9 15 2

7 8 15 2

7 8 14 1

6 7 14 1

6 7 14 1

6 6 13 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

Beast has a straightforward, playable dial for a recognisable character. Quite the opposite of Jean, he has a defensive power on all but one click, and he can both bring himself into combat (with Charge) and contribute to the effectiveness of friendly characters. For more advanced players, Beast makes an effective Brilliant Tactician for X-Men teams, or Mutant, Scientist, and X-Factor thematic teams. (Not that Scientists need any more Brilliant Tacticians!) Perplex is a great addition to any team, and now that it works in a more straightforward fashion it's a great power for new players. That makes the Danger Room Beast a good figure for newer players (especially once they remember to use Perplex every turn if possible - an important lesson!).

The problem with Beast is that his best click is his first, his second click is merely okay, and he goes downhill very rapidly from click three onwards. If you have spent 20 points to make Beast a Brilliant Tactician he needs to remain on his first click, and you'll be drawing heavily on his Super Senses and team ability to do so. Flurry later in his dial is unlikely to do much damage with a pitiful 7 attack value and 1 damage. A sole click of end-dial Outwit with a naked 13 damage won't last long.

Beast makes a great tool for your team, but he's made of eggshells... pricey, 60-point eggshells.


The next four characters are from four different starter sets...

What do you think so far? Have I under-rated one of your MVPs? Got any war stories to tell about these characters?

Nice work! But Saturn Girl really should be rated WAY above Shrinking Violet. SG is a great team player even if it takes her a little time to get with the program.

Hmmm. My guesses in no particular order:
* Elektra (runner-up: Spider-Man)
* Joker (runner-up: Man-Bat)
* Timber Wolf (runner-up: Ultra Boy)
* Human Torch (runner-up: the other Doombot)

I left out the Danger Room figures (Storm and Cyclops) as they are both top notch in my book.
We'll see how right I am...

The only game where I've seen her do well was in a Bizarro dial tournament. It's possible that I've just seen a few Saturn Girls with bad luck (could happen, it's not like I've seen her that often) - but so far, on paper and iin practice she has failed to impress.

My predictions:

1. Young Superman
2. FF Thing
3. DR Storm
4. Icons Batman
5. FF Dr. Doom

And now for Janet, Kirk, Rrok, and Sue!


Number Nineeen: Wasp

Experienced Wasp (Universe)
Keywords: Avengers
Team Ability: Avengers
Point Cost: 19
Range: 4

8 8 17 2

8 7 17 2

7 7 16 2

4 5 15 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

Here's a secret: Wasp used to be positioned much higher in my personal list of Best Starter Set Characters. But changes to the game over the last couple of years have really taken the lustre off her wax.

Once upon a time the Universe starter Wasp was a fantastic taxi. She had a fairly impressive 17 defence, she could carry a friendly character 8 squares for a mere 19 points, and her team ability provided you the option of either extra move actions or the Thunderbolts alternate team ability - most famously used to make Wasp into a 24-point Green Lantern. But times have changed.

A defence of 17 is no longer quite so impressive. It's not necessarily easy to hit, but since Sinister at least players come expecting to deal with 17s every game.
Thunderbolts has been retired.
As of the new Fantastic Four rulebook, the -2 speed penalty associated with carrying characters means that Wasp can only move 6 squares when she does so - a 25% reduction in distance.
Once upon a time Wasp was practically immune to Outwit due to having (practically) no powers, but now even that isn't true - your opponent can Outwit her ability to fly or her ability to carry.

Wasp is still good, for all the reasons that she used to be good. She's a very cheap investment and provides basic utility, and fortunately Janet Pym has featured in many Avengers lineups over the years, so she's good on lots of comic-accurate teams. She's just a lot less good than she used to be.


Number Eighteen: Man-Bat

Experienced Man-Bat (Icons)
Keywords: Animal, Gotham City, Monster, Scientist
Team Ability: Batman Enemies
Point Cost: 38
Range: 0

10 9 15 2

10 8 14 2

8 7 14 2

7 7 13 2

6 6 13 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

Man-Bat has a few things going for him. He's a cheap Blades/Claws/Fangs character with Charge, and although he boasts a mediocre attack value of just 9, he has the Batman Enemy team ability to provide a boost if needed. Mind you, there aren't that many Batman Enemies with a higher attack value for Man-Bat to share (astute readers will note that Icons starter Joker has yet to appear in this review ).

Man-Bat is a team player through and through. Whether that be a team affiliation-based force (he's the only Batman Enemy made so far with flight) or a keyword-based thmetaic team (he offers cheap transportation to the otherwise-lacking Animal, Gotham City, and Monster thematic teams), Man-Bat fills a vital role. Even with a -2 to his speed value for carrying a friendly character, he gets them across the battlefield prettily handily.

Man-Bat is a little champion. You can get cheaper taxis, sure - rookie Green Flame leaps to mind. But I've seen him do quite well almost every time that he's been played (usually by my opponents!), and I think that every HeroClix player should give him respect.


Number Seventeen: Cosmic Boy

Experienced Cosmic Boy (Legion of Super-Heroes)
Keywords: Future, Legion of Super Heroes, Teen
Team Ability: Legion of Super Heroes
Point Cost: 70
Range: 6

9 10 17 2

9 10 16 2

9 9 16 2

8 9 16 2

8 7 16 1

7 7 15 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

The original Cosmic Boy was definitely a one-trick pony. Many were the times that he'd use Telekinesis to throw a team-mate across the battlefield and then do nothing for the rest of the game; without range or any other powers it simply wasn't worth the sheer effort to get him involved.

Things certainly have changed. Cosmic Boy still has Telekinesis and Leadership, but now Willpower allows him to move into position and then attack the next turn without pushing; and even his merely-average 6 range allows him to attack without using an object. Not that Cosmic Boy will be hurting for possibilities with the new Telekinesis rules - he can help to control the battlefield, or make attacks with non-adjacent objects. His attack value of 10 means that Cosmic Boy will be effective in whatever tactics he employs, too.

The only downsides to Cosmic Boy are a lack of move-and-attack powers and his somewhat-high cost for a support character. If he featured either a click of Charge/Running Shot or a slightly lower cost, I'd consider him for the top ten!

As a leader of one of DC's popular super-hero teams, and featuring in a number of cartoons (including the Superman animated series, Justice League Unlimited, and Legion of Super-Heroes, voiced by Wil Wheaton), Cosmic Boy should be a well-recognised character for newer players as well as hardcore fans. He's worthy of his position as a starter set character, headlining the DC HeroCLix line.


Number Sixteen: Invisible Woman

Veteran Invisible Woman (Fantastic Four)
Keywords: Fantastic Four
Team Ability: Fantastic Four
Point Cost: 100
Range: 6

9 9 17 2

9 9 17 2

9 10 17 2

8 10 16 2

8 10 16 2

7 9 15 1

7 8 15 1

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

Invisible Any character that is 7 or more squares from the Invisible Woman can't draw a line of fire to her.
Force Fields Invisible Woman can use Barrier and Invulnerability.

Invisible Woman is new. We haven't yet had a chance to actually see her in play yet. And still, I feel fairly confident in giving Invisible Woman a position in the top 50% of all starter set characters. What does she do to deserve this confidence?

For a start - and this is a big deal as far as I'm concerned - this is an Invisible Woman who doesn't just increase the defence values of her allies while hiding in hindering terrain. Invisible Woman is an active member of the Fantastic Four, but rookie Invisible Girl (Clobberin' Time) was one of the most passive characters in HeroClix - most games, she wouldn't even take an action. The LE Sue Storm (Fantastic Fources) wasn't much better; occasionally she'd create a Barrier or maybe Incapacitate somebody, but generally she'd stay in her starting zone or the nearest square of hindering terrain.

This is an all-new Invisible Woman.

At 100 points she's just over double what LE Sue Storm cost, so what do you get for your points? You get a dial that can deal with Invulnerable/Impervious opponents on six out of seven clicks. Telekinesis to move her team-mates into combat, an Invisible special power so that she's not tied to hindering terrain, and Force Fields so that she can create her trademark Barriers while still being resistant to damage. Finally, this is an Invisible Woman worth the Fantastic Four prestige!

Sue has her weaknesses. Any opposing character who can get close enough to Invisible Woman can shoot at her with ease, and her defence values are hittable (in unrestricted this isn't an issue - she can use the Fantastic Four alternate team ability to borrow the Thing's 18 - and her husband Reed can always Perplex her 17 to a 19). But I believe in her possibilities. Indeed, Invisible Woman could be a surprising anti-Stealth piece: use her Telekinesis to move objects away from characters like Batman, or to throw attackers like the Thing at him, while remaining "invisible" to his Outwit seven or more squares away. And because you don't need hindering terrain for the special power to work, you're free to play Bright Lights or to use a thematic team ignore against your opponent's Deep Shadows.

I'm really looking forward to playing this figure!


Next we count down from #15 to #11!

I'm enjoying your list, thanks for your work in putting it together.

I will say that, as my favorite Contingency Planner, Cosmic Boy would easily be in my starter top ten, maybe even top five. He is just perfect for that Feat.

That's something that I was hoping to see come out of this thread - everybody's ideas and favourite tactics with starter set characters. Most of us have used them, after all, so there should be a decent amount of good ideas out there!

While the other arguments are certainly reasonable (carrying people only 6 squares is hardly worth it), the fact that Thunderbolts is retired doesn't seem a valid complaint against this figure since she too is retired, so that if you can play her, you can play Thunderbolts. And if you can't play her (i.e., in restricted games), she's utterly useless because she's banned.

I would mention that with the new rules preventing wildcards from copying alternate TAs, she's no longer an inexpensive team ability generator (24 points for any TA that you want your wildcards to copy) even in unrestricted, so that hurts her quite a bit.

Great idea for a thread. However, I'm waiting until all issues are out and then buying the graphic novel so I can just read the list all at once.

Ooh ooh! I do I do!

Anyway, I'm kind of suprised to see Colossus anywhere but the bottom. I never quite liked him at all.

Thanks for all the hard work. I have to say that I would definitely have Cosmic Boy rated higher, at least in the top ten. He probably sees more action on my teams than any other Starter Set character

Yeah, that threw me off as well. I see far less publicity for Timber Wolf and Ultra Boy than I do for Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad, Young Superman and Phantom Girl.

Great list. I'm looking forward to seeing where Timber Wolf places. He is highly underrated and an excellent wildcard secondary attacker. I used him in a Teen theme team to win the WWE Event Dial tournament on Sunday.