I own only 'Superman II' and 'Superman Returns.' (Superman: The Movie lost me utterly at the moment the hero *reversed the flow of time* to undo tragic happenstance.)

That and I hated Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor. I grew up considering Christopher Reeve to be 'Superman' no matter what else he did -- see 'Deathtrap' -- but the Reeve movies have always come off to me as somewhat shallow. Superman's *always* right, *always* powerful enough to overcome the villain and everybody else either chews scenery or cowers in fear.

I admire what Bryan Singer was shooting for, even if he didn't get there the way I might've. Kevin Spacey deserves to be Lex Luthor for the next several movies at least. According to a fellow nerd, "Batman" is for dark and gritty and angstful -- "Superman" should have a different dynamic. He's not wrong, but I know I'm in the minority defending 'Superman Returns' as a more textured film than earlier attempts.

(Because, again: *flew backwards through time!* You lose.)

You got that backwards.

Bryan Singer was trying to reintroduce the public to the Superman mythos and did an excellent job of it. It just wasn't good for comic readers because we had seen it all in Superman 1. Besides, Bryan already has X-Men 1 & 2 under his belt.

Tom Welling started out as a great actor, but now he's starting to suck. Granted, a lot of that can be chalked up to the declining quality of the writing, but I still think he isn't as good as he once was.

As far as the reboot goes, if it worked for the Incredible Hulk, it'll work here. Hopefully.

I really have to disagree with this point. I've loved Kevin Spacey in just about every role I've seen him in. Lex Luthor (IMO) is the GLARING exception. I thought he was TERRIBLE as Lex. That said, I have a hard time believing that it was Spacey's fault that I hated him in the role. However, I thought he came off too much like Hackman's Luthor. And he really seemed to be uncomfortable in the role.

The problem with Superman Returns is it can't decide what type of movie it's trying to be. It's somewhere between a remake, homage, sequel, and a reboot. It's too long, and Superman, yet again, really doesn't have anyone to fight (trade blows with).

IMO, the season finale and premiere for Smallville that bookended that summer, made a better (more entertaining) story than Superman Returns did. And I enjoyed watching "My Super Ex-Girlfriend" more, because I actually got to see 2 super-powered beings beat the snot out of each other.

Ultimately, I'm really glad that DC is rebooting Superman (so that we might get a GOOD start to the franchise). Although they fact that they've decided that "going dark" is the right strategy bothers me greatly. Batman is SUPPOSED to be dark. Superman really isn't.

Maybe DC should realize that we want them to be true to the comics/characters (which Superman Returns really isn't) instead of just going with what they think will be "popular."

OP is dead on with Evangeline Lily and Hugo Weaving as Lois and Brainiac. I like Welling as Superman too.

I also like Superman Returns. It's not perfect but it's not horrible either. I'm not a big fan of seeing another origin movie but I wouldn't be opposed to relaunch depending on how it was handled.

And someone mentioned "let Superman hit someone". It made me think. I don't think he ever really punches anybody. In Superman II he sort of throws them around and I don't really remember his fights with the Nuclear Man in IV (who'd want to). So yeah, let him hit someone a'la Justice League when he fights Darkseid. Paraphrasing "I live in a cardboard world and I always have to be careful or I might kill someone. But I don't have that problem with you, do I?"

regarding the Tom Welling casting, while he does look the part the later seasons of Smallville have shown me (among other things) that he's not much of an actor. Easy on the eyes to be sure (this coming from a straight dude), but the one thing I think is a necessity for Superman more than any physical attribute is the gravitas the Reeve had. Even though the 70's movies are a bit 'campy' for today, you never doubted for a second that man's sincerity or dedication. He wasn't "Christopher Reeve" he was SUPERMAN!

I'm right there with krusticles that Lex Luthor himself never seemed to be a serious threat, but more of a camp character. Without the performance of Heath Ledger as the Joker, TDK almost certainly wouldn't be as popular as it is. Every hero needs a villian who can match or exceed them on some/every level.

I believe that this is the reason that Luthor as head of Lexcorp makes the most sense to me. In a physical sense he's easily no match for Superman, and while he may be ruthless and highly intelligent, Superman's no dummy himeself, but the one thing that Lex Luthor does have as head of Lexcorp is a group of people who Superman is trying to protect. If they go the route of having Luthor be Metropolis's favorite son before Superman shows up then he has the goodwill of the people and Superman therefor can't expose him without being met with suspision himself from the populus.

I also think this would be an opportunity to make a statement about corruption and mis-information that can be spewed forth from those in powers to hide the truth from the masses and the struggle that even someone as powerful as Superman to convince the people as a whole of the truth and to bring to light the lies and half-truths that the powerful say so they can stay in power and keep the people ignorant and in the dark.

To me, this is sad news. I really enjoyed Superman Returns (With the exception being I thought it was a tad too long and a little light on action). I know I'm in the minority, but I didn't think TDK lived up to the hype. Don't get me wrong Heath Ledger was amazing, but I think Batman Begins was a superior movie. Its the box office that drives the decisions so I wouldn't be suprised to see the Superman franchise recast and reworked so that Superman is darker. I think its a horrible decision, but I'm not running the show.

Yeah, I think Hackman and Spacey are both great actors but the Luthor's were lacking. Again, probably not their fault. Hackman's was comedic. Spacey's was more dangerous but not quite right either. Luthor should be more like in Justice League. Heck, get the writers from that to do a Superman movie.

Just watch Justice League. It's a very simple formula. Or something like that.

Clancy Brown should play Lex Luthor.

Ha! The idea of a 'dark' Superman movie is a hilariously bad one to me.

I thought Superman Returns was bad, and I didn't really like The Dark Knight.

Dark Superhero movies don't work for me.
In fact, most superhero movies don't work for me in general.

But I liked Iron Man a lot...

What's my point? Oh yeah-- Dark Superman is a horrible idea.

That's what Superman 3 was about, what with all the Richard Pryoring and all.

what did i just write?

-RmL

Is that across a line? It feels like it might be.....oh well

Newsrama has a bit about the relaunch. I also found this on the USA Today website;

http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2008-08-25-superman-creators_N.htm?se=yahoorefer

Interesting tidbit of Superman lore, I thought, tho it made me think of Batman's origins.

I have to agree with Charlesx, we have the movie version of Superman with the Donner movie (and II was really good, too).

The reason Nolan's Batman works so well is that he has grounded the character in the 70's O'Neil/Adams verison of the character (Burton captured the Kane version in the '89 film, and did it very well, I can't think of a better comic film with the right four-color texture). Nolan has maybe one more good picture left for the new Batman franchise, and then that will be history.

I don't see where a new Superman movie brings anything to the character and it will ultimately compete with the '78 movie, and Reeve's portrayal of the character. They could try to bring one of the modern storylines to life and forget about "re-booting" the character, but ultimately, I think that will fail.

'Dark' Superman? Really? He's a symbol of hope and protection. His one flaw is that he can sometimes borderline on being a 'big brother' type who tries too hard to protect and forgets about freedom. The perfect superman movie is the film that captures the sense of optimism and hope he brings regardless of the evils and dangers in the world.

The want to make the next Superman movie a hit? Bring on a villain who doesn't depend on a rock to hurt him and make Luthor dangerous.


And if they are doing this the last thing I would want is Tom frikkin Welling playing superman. The guy will never look a day older than 25. He'd never work in a movie unless it's about teen superman and Warner Bros is willing to wait 10-15 years before the sequel for him to age.

That and he's a serial actor at best (though I'll admit he's better than the guy who played Superman last movie).


Dangit I dug Superman returns except for its slow middle section's repetative plot, lois and the lead actor's acting.

Superman with a baby out-of-wedlock? Brilliant/modern/real.

Superman's kid having powers? Freakin' awesome/brilliant idea.

As for the smallville cast I'd cast Lionel as Lex since he's old enough. The guy playing Lex in smallville is awesome but still too young for the part.

Superman going dark... not to weird. I've always seen it as somewhat dark. Not Superman himself, but the world he lives in. Take Lex... how many times over the years has Superman had a chance to kill Lex? Often. Lex and various other char's in Superman's world are dark. Superman is the contrast.
Like, over at Marvel, you have Captain America (Steve Rogers). Another "boy scout" who wouldn't kill if he can find another way. But his antagonists tend to be dark. And how many times has Cap had a chance to kill the Red Skull? Many. Still, he won't do it.
Superman himself shouldn't be "dark", it's others around him that are dark. His team-ups with Batman show that off quite well.