I don't believe it is as clear cut as you make it out to be (hence my "thinking about it" caveat).

The problem is that the effect of Outsiders only activates at the beginning of your turn. So unless you were to cancel the TA during that opening course of events (when doling out Poison and Leadership), then there is no effect to activate/worry about later in the turn.

So that then leaves us with what, exactly, causes Outsiders to stop functioning once it has been used... and per the description, only the beginning of your next turn causes that to happen. Remember, even when something is canceled, it is still there on the dial; cancel =/= counter.

never mind, i should have read all the post first.

I understand the TA is still there on the dial when it is canceled, but what we are talking about is the effect of the TA. If you used the TA's effect on a target character and then you cancel it, the effect of the TA should go away and therefore the target can have his values modified. You would want to do this if you targeted a friendly fig and on your opponent's turn you wanted your friendly fig to be able to use ES/D or CR for example.

And that's one of the reasons why I lean towards "no". Just like you can't cancel the Life Model Decoy whenever you feel like healing your character. It's a case of both having and eating your cake and that just usually doesn't happen.

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced I am correct.

If you MC a character with Outwit, you can choose to cancel that character's Outwit if you wish, but that does not make any power it countered return. Much like Outsiders, the only thing that makes an Outwitted power return is either the beginning of the next turn or loss/countering of the power.

I don't know that it has ever come up before with Outsiders, but this is an established ruling for MC/Outwit... I am surprised it took me this long to remember it

I agree with this.

There's no other effect that has its long-term effect ended through canceling.

Barrier, Smoke Cloud, Perplex, Outwit, etc. all remain in effect even if the power is canceled.

But if you outwit a power and then cancel outwit, doesn't the power come back? If you read the definition of cancel is says:
"cancel: To turn off one of your character’s optional powers or abilities."

What does it mean to turn off optional powers or abilities?

Let's look at page page 16 of the FF rulebook:
"Powers and other game effects might sometimes grant abilities to a
character. All abilities are optional unless “non-optional” appears in their
descriptions and are not required to be used during your turn; however,
all abilities are assumed to be in effect during an action unless you cancel
them at the beginning of that action. When an ability is canceled, it is
canceled until the end of that turn and resumes effect at the beginning of
the next player’s turn."

This seems pretty clear cut to me that a power or ability that is canceled looses its effect immediately and resumes effect at the beginning of the next player's turn.

I'm just quoting the rulebook here. I understand if you don't like it, but I don't see how this can be ruled any differently.

Canceling Outwit does not cause the countered power to return. It never has.

If you cancel Barrier, the blocking terrain remains.

If you cancel Perplex, the modifier stays.

If you cancel Smoke Cloud, the hindering terrain does not go away.


You turn off the power, yes, but the power is not lost or countered.

so in other words Outsiders TA (somewhat) finally caught up to M&M danger's SP? that's awesome!!

This begs the question, why not? Why doesn't the effect end when canceled? Because when I read the rulebook and it says "all abilities are assumed to be in effect during an action unless you cancel them at the beginning of that action" that reads to me that the effect ends if you cancel them.

Please explain this to me, because this is starting to turn into another one of those bad rulings that contradicts the rulebook.

What changed? Sounds the same to me.

Already answered

Already answered.

"cancel" =/= "counter" or "lost"


Since the only thing that ends many of these game effects (Outwit, Outsiders, etc) are either a set time point, such as the beginning of your next turn, or the actual loss of the effect, anything that is NOT that time point or the loss of the effect will not cause it to end.

Canceling Outsiders (or Outwit) is not the described time point or the loss of the effect. So Outsiders' effect will not end.

On a different yet related subject Everyone knows Warbound is awesome. Especially if you can carry the warbound fodder or have move-and-attack powers. Transporters do both, with a -2 speed and -2 attack. Robotman is 46 point Outside characer. He removes these minuses. All you need is a 92 or less point transporter that shares a keyword with him. Like Robot from Invincible. 10 speed 4 range. Equivalent of 12 speed 8 range hypersonic! And full attack value. Have fun!!

I am going to also assume that Outsiders TA could target an opposing character and they would NOT get hindering terrain bonus?