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Who's the object of "Groot [...] can't be moved" then? Groot cannot move himself.
Waller KOs: AA Robin, Kid Devil, Joker, Question; AW E Cap; FCBD Iron Man; Miracle/Oberon; John Stewart x2, Iron Patriot; Shatterstar; IH Herc; CW Photon & Nitro; FF Nite Owl; 10An R Thor, E Iron Man, Weapon X; FF Kilowog; Hugo Strange; Calender Man; Legion Cosmic Boy & Lightning Lad, LE Pete Wisdom
These types of nit-picking have been getting waaaaaaaaaaay too common lately, so I'm goning to put my Deputy Hat on and put a stop to this before it gets out of control:
You're incorrect, Joe. Groot can't be moved. Period.
Who's the object of "Groot [...] can't be moved" then? Groot cannot move himself.
Groot can't be moved.
Says it right there he can't be moved, if he moves himself is he being moved? YES.
I'm thinking you are making up things or no understanding the English language very well.
These types of nit-picking have been getting waaaaaaaaaaay too common lately, so I'm goning to put my Deputy Hat on and put a stop to this before it gets out of control:
You're incorrect, Joe. Groot can't be moved. Period.
Obviously, it says that right in the power. But why can't Groot move if his speed is increased? Your ruling does not seem to be based on anything in the rules. The power reads as if it's trying to keep Colossal Groot from being TKed or carried by other characters. If the design intent was for Groot to be completely stationary, it should be phrased that way.
Waller KOs: AA Robin, Kid Devil, Joker, Question; AW E Cap; FCBD Iron Man; Miracle/Oberon; John Stewart x2, Iron Patriot; Shatterstar; IH Herc; CW Photon & Nitro; FF Nite Owl; 10An R Thor, E Iron Man, Weapon X; FF Kilowog; Hugo Strange; Calender Man; Legion Cosmic Boy & Lightning Lad, LE Pete Wisdom
Groot can't be moved.
Says it right there he can't be moved, if he moves himself is he being moved? YES.
He's moving, not being moved.
Quote : Originally Posted by Maraud
I'm thinking you are making up things or no understanding the English language very well.
Actually, I have master's degree in English, which is clearly more than the sub-high school education of whoever writes the error-ridden rules and powers.
Waller KOs: AA Robin, Kid Devil, Joker, Question; AW E Cap; FCBD Iron Man; Miracle/Oberon; John Stewart x2, Iron Patriot; Shatterstar; IH Herc; CW Photon & Nitro; FF Nite Owl; 10An R Thor, E Iron Man, Weapon X; FF Kilowog; Hugo Strange; Calender Man; Legion Cosmic Boy & Lightning Lad, LE Pete Wisdom
Obviously, it says that right in the power. But why can't Groot move if his speed is increased?
Because if you used his speed value to move him from point A to point B, that would be Groot being moved. His SP prevents Groot being moved, so it can't be done.
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Your ruling does not seem to be based on anything in the rules.
It's based on the part of the SP that says Groot can't be moved.
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The power reads as if it's trying to keep Colossal Groot from being TKed or carried by other characters.
No, it doesn't. YOU are reading that into the power with no actual basis for doing so.
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If the design intent was for Groot to be completely stationary, it should be phrased that way.
Thank you, Flatmatt, for finding actually evidence as to the intent of the power.
it still seems a little odd, given that other special powers don't get meta, but the wording is definitely the same.
Waller KOs: AA Robin, Kid Devil, Joker, Question; AW E Cap; FCBD Iron Man; Miracle/Oberon; John Stewart x2, Iron Patriot; Shatterstar; IH Herc; CW Photon & Nitro; FF Nite Owl; 10An R Thor, E Iron Man, Weapon X; FF Kilowog; Hugo Strange; Calender Man; Legion Cosmic Boy & Lightning Lad, LE Pete Wisdom
Who's the object of "Groot [...] can't be moved" then? Groot cannot move himself.
Even with your mastery in english I still feel you are wrong.
The special power says:
Quote : Originally Posted by FLORAL COLOSSUS SPROUT:
Non-optional. Groot has the Colossal damage symbol, a range of 4, and can't be moved.
There is no implied object. I read it like, here's the power name, it's not optional (ie can't be turned off), Here's the traits Groot now has (Colossal damage, 4 range, and can't be moved (by ANYTHING).
Giving Groot +3 to his speed value and then MOVING groot ends up with Groot having MOVED, even under his own powers.
As far as I'm concerned the rule book shouldn't even have to say when you give a move action a character can be moved as a basis. Because simple understanding of the english language is, after something goes from a moving state to a stationary state it moved.
The rules further wouldn't make sense if they said, "When you give a character a move action, it can be moving a number a squares equal to its Speed Value."
Now would they..
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It raises a question in my mind: Groot declares an attack against a target with Shape Change, and the target makes a successful Shape Change roll. If there are no other legal targets, and Groot can't be given a move action (even if to not move at all), what can he do?
Obviously, it says that right in the power. But why can't Groot move if his speed is increased? Your ruling does not seem to be based on anything in the rules. The power reads as if it's trying to keep Colossal Groot from being TKed or carried by other characters. If the design intent was for Groot to be completely stationary, it should be phrased that way.
Is this grammar lawyering?
Seriously though.
Joe is your argument that Groot can move himself because it says that "Groot cannot be moved" as opposed to explicitly saying "Groot cannot move himself" (or including that text)?
Why would you assume that not being moved would not include Groot moving himself. It's an exclusion so it would be all encompassing. If there was meant to be an exception (such as Groot can move himself) then that exception is what would need to be stated in the SP, IMHO.
As is, I don't see why it would need to state that the exception doesn't apply.
It's like a rule telling you what you don't need to do. It's unnecessary and confusing. The fact is that 99 out of 100 people would not find the issue you're finding or have a problem with it. I am a lawyer, so believe me I find ambiguity in everything, and I don't think it needs to say that the "Groot cannot be moved" includes Groot moving himself.
Quote : Originally Posted by mbauers
Ok, so this game's finally over?
Who the eff daykilled me back to back days? Seriously.