is Korn considered to be punk? Because Korn is just incredibly awful.

I think he was referring to the generally low marks being given to the Sex Pistols. I can't imagine that he'd flatter Korn with the appelation "punk."

Well for me, Liar might be the best thing I ever heard by the Sex Pistols. but I never really was that overwhelmed by what they or the Ramones were trying to do. I don't hate it though.
I've always thought Johnny Rotten seemed a bit pretentious. That righteous anger thing he's got going is a bit over the top.
Everything he's supposed to be angry about doesn't really compare to being a victim of the Holocaust or being used as slaves as late as the 19th century.
Apparently the Ramones even felt like he needed to be taken down a notch when they peed in his drink at a party once.

I have an all new respect for The Ramones now.

See? I'm kinda in your wellhouse here. I never, ever, ever believed the Sex Pistols. All their supposed rebellion and anger and blah, blah, blah. I just didn't buy it. They worked so hard at trying to convince the world they were these misunderstood rebels. If they were misunderstood, it was only because you couldn't understand the screaming vocals through the bang and clang of the instruments.

The Ramones, however, at least to me, were always just fun. Loud and obnoxious? Absolutely! But fun just the same.

Yeah, not flattering Korn with the Punk label.

It was the dismissal of the Pistols (not that I am a huge fan) and Rollins here, and Elvis Costello on the last one, and attitude being cited more than once.

I think the Sex Pistols work well enough, as long as you don't take them seriously. I don't think they ever took themselves seriously. And I give them a lot of credit for the My Way cover.

I've never been able to warm up to Elvis Costello. In the early days he had a huge chip on his shoulder and his music's never grabbed me. he got himself banned from airplay in St. Louis because of a concert he appeared at that was sponsored by KSHE 95 because he dissed the station on stage. KSHE never played another Elvis Costello song again after that. Then there was his incident with Stephen Stills and Bonnie Raitt where he dissed James Brown and Ray Charles. Not too impressive.

Actually, it was Malcolm McLaren who was doing the convincing, and the main thing that he wanted to convey was that everyone should shop at his clothing store. I "get" the Pistols in an historical context, but I've never been a fan of their music (I'm similarly ambivalent towards Public Image Limited). In fact, looking at McLaren's other projects, I'll repeat what I've said in the past - I much prefer Bow Wow Wow to anything released by the Pistols.

As for how punk/New Wave has done in previous matches, I looked some up:

Match #36 Crash – Primitives (55) beat out Lunachicks (44), (tie for third) Velvet Underground and Feeder (38), Flesh for Lulu (30), Methods of Mayhem (24), 12 Stones (23)

Match #37 Cry – Tie for 1st Afterlife and The Sundays (43), Godley and Crème (41), Johnnie Ray (36), Michael Jackson (35), Alex Parks (30), Kelly Clarkson (24)

Match # 44 I Believe – Buzzcocks (50) beat Robert Plant (50), Joe Satriani (47), REM (44), Helloween (36), Marcella Detroit (29), Bon Jovi (24)

Those were just a few of the first-place finishes I found. So the trend against punk/New Wave might just be a statistical blip that doesn't indicate long-term patterns.

He's talked quite a bit about that incident, I think that's well behind him.

But my comment was more aimed as dismissing artists for the artist and not song, which wasn't just Costello.


Hail: could be. I have limited perspective. Though Primitives and Sundays are a bit later.

I really liked that Buzzcocks song.

Elvis Costello may have put it behind him and Ray Charles and James Brown may even have blown it off, but it was indicative of a lot of what he was about back in the day, pretentiously angry and a little bit full of himself. He seems mellower now but I still haven't heard anything I really like by him, not even when he helps pay tribute to one of my favorite artists, Gram Parsons.

My music collection contains everything from ABBA to Rob Zombie (and I am pretty sure that I have a ZZ Top cassette in a box somewhere).

If I like a song I will vote for it. I do not care what "genre" someone else says it is, or whether someone else says that it is the "cool" thing to listen to.

My all-time favorites are probably Springsteen and ELO, with several others nipping at their heels. Both "classic rock", but really not very similar. That's why I think that the labels don't really do justice to the music.

But the only Elvis Costello I own is what came to my on compilation discs. I have never heard anything from him that made me want to buy an album, cassette, or CD.

Before I had been laid off I was given their Sigh No More CD to evaluate to see if we should extend a contract. I was loving this new CD and then last week, they wanted it back...now I know why. I never got to give them my thoughts on the band...Sign sign sign!

1. Argent, easily. This was a delight to listen to with some really interesting stuff going on in the instrumentals.
2. Mumford & Sons - laid back and mellow with some decidedly different background instrumentals. Starts out very minimal and then builds some, but even still never overdoes it. Then finishes off the same way it began. Definitely worth another listen.
3. Cranberries - A good sound, but not a great sound. Still, I liked it.
4. Queen - Just knowing it was Queen got my hopes up, but it wasn't the most distinctive or inspired Queen. Just okay Queen.
5. Sex Pistols - I guess this is where the line between liked and didn't starts. Could have been worse, no question, but I can't say I really enjoyed it that much.
6. Rollins Band - There was actually some stuff in this that I really liked. Unfortunately it jumped around a lot and there was a lot more stuff that I didn't really care for at all.
7. Korn - Unlike the above, there wasn't a thing in this I liked. Well, except maybe the touch of bagpipe at the end. But that was far from sufficient to redeem the rest of the noise.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have to say it's impossible for me to vote for a song from 30 years ago or thereabouts without bringing a certain measure of attitude(s) into the voting booth.

I just can't.

I mean...I think I can do that well enough with a song/artist I'm hearing for the first time and know nothing about (Mumford and Sons, take a bow). But if it's a song that's a track on me very own life's soundtrack, well, it's gonna be bringing some baggage into the ring, see.

I'm going to be thinking about the song...and remembering what I know about the artist...the people I hung with...and where...women I had as girlfriends...women I wished I had as girlfriends...good times...bad times...parties...and how I still feel about all of it.

Starting with -- while I might not mention it -- what kind of stereo system I had, when I first heard the song. Was it through my fondly remembered Rectilinear IIIs or later, when I felt I'd finally arrived, having Klipsch Heresys as my speakers?

For me, listening to something like "Liar" by Argent is as close as it gets to time travel...and I'd be less than honest if I said I could consider it -- or any other song -- without all the other stuff, including how I feel about the artist, that accounts for an emotional attachment (or just the opposite) becoming part of the equation.

Hopefully, this particular confession doesn't get me kicked out of the club...

QFT Brother!