This assumes your big character is in a position where it can do anything else. Maybe Sauron has no LOF.

Or maybe Sauron needs to buy some time for the rest of his forces to clear. Remember, Epic games can be up to 1000 points according to the spoiler article... that's a lot of other characters Sauron can hide behind, waiting until the opposition is all softened up. And while he is waiting, he's making it harder for the opposition to do anything meaningful other than attacking.

And that's just off the top of my head.

Except that the majority of them merely fall into the category of "Gimmiky feat card."

Okay, Strider's epic action is worthy of a token, and yes I also agree with you on Gandalfs. In a 600 pt game, being able to draw a 12-reach barrier, "taunting" any would-be passers to first take a crack at Gandalf... well, that's kind of epic.

But Saurons? You might as well have given this 330+ point figure the special power to take a tokenable action and do nothing more your turn to give up to 2 (for 400pt game), 3 (for 600pt game), 4 or 5 (800 and 1000 pt games, respectively) what amounts to essentially a weak-sauce version of tokenless incappacitate that you don't have to roll for. Meaning that next turn (assuming they didn't just attack), you have a token and they dont.

Or the Witch-king? Take a token to give an opposing figure -2 defense for that turn only? You'd better not be counting on the 130 pt Witch-king to be your biggest gun in the show.

Esquire of Rohan: take a token, deny everyone else on your team the opportunity to do something epic, and then send some bystander tokens back to your opponents starting area?

Come on... Do these sound truely epic? Cause to me they just sound like fancy double power actions without the second token.

I'm just saying that they better step up the remaining figure's "epic actions" to truley be worth that unique token more than just doing damage or board manuvering.

Edited to add DC75th Sinestro for comparison: THE ANTAGONIST: Sinestro can use Perplex, but only to modify a defense value by -2.

It isn't tokenless Incap. It is flat out preventing them from taking actions. Yeah, they may simply choose to not take an action... but then they didn't take an action. I love it when my opponents don't use their actions.

That is a permanent -2 until your next turn. There is nothing to counter, there is no getting rid of it, it sticks. So, yeah, if I was facing a character that had a consistently high DV, I would totally burn an action to reduce its defense value and then let the rest of my characters beat it into submission.

Remember, minimum of 400 point, so Witchy will have lots of friends.

So you don't see the benefit in repositioning a bunch of characters who are currently mixing it up with your characters? That sounds fantastic to me.

Yes. Yes, they do seem epic. And if they don't seem so to you... well... sorry. I personally see lots and lots of uses for all these abilities.

And as soon as that character's dial clicks for any reason, any reason at all, that -2 immediately goes away. That's the way Perplex works. I assume you meant this as a comparison to the Witch-King's power... notice I already pointed out how his doesn't go away. Plus, you've got no idea how much Sinestro is paying for that trait versus what Witchy pays for his Epic Ability... other than the fact that there is some modifying going on, you are really comparing apples and oranges.

Yeah, I'm under the impression that Epic abilities cost virtually nothing as far as costs of powers go. I mean, they're abilities these dials just don't have in games lower than 400 points, so realistically they CAN'T cost that much, or else you'd see the dials as being bloated under normal, 300-point circumstances. So I'm treating them as such: icing. Sweet, circumstantial icing, that I don't feel I'm really paying that much for, so it's not a waste if I don't use them.

But when I choose to, if I choose to, they do all seem to have a pretty quantifiable effect.

Agreed with Normalview.

Sure the character using their Epic Action doesn't get to do anything that turn. But remember, these abilities are meant for games 400+ and up. Sure it might lock a character down for a turn for you... but they shouldn't be your only character that is capable of attacking and doing damage. If you're depending all your points on 1 piece doing all the damage... then you're likely going to lose anyway.

Sauron and the Witch-King both have amazing abilities that I can see using.

Sorry, Incapacitate on an over 300 point figure is stupid. Incapacitate is the worst power in the game. It does not progress nor give an advantage, it just stalls. But wait, what happens when you make that Incapacitate free? Now it is "Epic"!

Look at Legolas' power where he can move around the map. That is useless if it requires a token. The others you mentioned like Gandolf's "hit me" power may be comic accurate, but you are just painting a target on a specific character that will get hit with such a low defense. For Strider why not just have a flyer or TKer pull them out of combat with the same result?

They just do not feel epic if they require tokens.

Because moving normally doesn't require an action?

And incapacitate is very useful but, like many powers due to how the game was originally designed, it's more useful on cheaper guys and in smaller games.

I've never understood why some people don't like Incapacitate. It's one of my favorite powers, always handy for annoying situations.

Keep in mind that these powers apply to epic games, so a figure worth over 300 points is still only a part of your team, and this is going to give you a *serious* action advantage. You've "lost" an action from 300 points worth of your team, but you've probably deprived most of your opponent's pieces from being able to move into position, without having to so much as roll an attack or need Line of Fire.

At the beginning of the game, this is going to be a HUGE pain as you prevent your opponent from arranging his pieces while yours go right where you want them to go.

Soo 335 points for really expensive incap? I think this would not be that broken as free

ditto the other ones. Yes they are strong but u only get one fore your whole force each turn.

He's not just moving. He's moving 12 squares (half the map), ignoring all terrain and characters (thanks to P/T), and he's potentially carrying 4 or more characters. Yeah, I'd pay a token to do that.

It's not just Incap; it is waaaaay better. How many times must this be said?

No LOF. No attack roll. No chance to evade or otherwise avoid it. And he can do it to a minimum of 2 characters (maybe even 5).

I would love to have Sauron hang back behind a huge army of Nazgul and Orc Horde Tokens, using his Epic Action to slow down the opposing side. Then, once my other characters have done their bit and dealt some damage (which will be fairly easy, since they didn't need to worry about the opposing big guys using Running Shot or Charge or moving up to snipe or Outwit, etc.), Sauron moves in fresh as a daisy and ready to lay the smack down.

Yeah, I'd pay a token to do that, too.

Even if it was Incap, it still wouldn't be half bad. Incap is a fantastic power when used properly. Anyone who poo-poos Incap has never faced a team that effectively utilized it... for example, with just two Vertigos, I can more or less shut down your entire team (and I have done that before, many times).

Yeah, Incap can be very valuable.

I love my Gorilla City Warriors run with Solovar. 2 Incaps a piece? Sweet.

How many pieces with Incap were used, and if any how many times was it used, in any major tournament like GenCon? Not every game has to be played like it was at GenCon, but those tournaments show which powers are powerful and which are not. Somebody did a thread about those percentages. I do not remember Incap being on the list.

On the actual winning team? Probably not too many.

However, plenty of the top 16 had Incap. Just at the very last GenCon, I know I saw Professor X and Edward Nigma; there may have been others I am forgetting about. That was just the last one, too. Who knows how many previous Top 16 teams had Incap...

Incap is a fine power. Not my problem if others don't think so... in fact, the more others talk it down, the more easily I can sneak up on them with it.