You are currently viewing HCRealms.com, The Premier HeroClix Community, as a Guest. If you would like to participate in the community, please Register to join the discussion!
If you are having problems registering to an account, feel free to Contact Us.
My understanding is that he can use any standard powers that his target can use in their unaltered form. For example:
lets In-Betweener use Pulse Wave, but only normally. Where as:
doesn't give him anything to work with
Totally see that, and maybe I am just being thick.
Do you see a difference between Nemesis power as stated, and say this example: "Nemesis can use Pulse Wave with full range and his printed damage value is locked."
To me, the first says, "Nemesis can use Pulse Wave. (Period)" Then goes on to list a limitation. The other states Pulse Wave and it's limitations in one go, thereby making it something different than PW.
Again, am I just thick? Reading into this too much?
Totally see that, and maybe I am just being thick.
Do you see a difference between Nemesis power as stated, and say this example: "Nemesis can use Pulse Wave with full range and his printed damage value is locked."
To me, the first says, "Nemesis can use Pulse Wave. (Period)" Then goes on to list a limitation. The other states Pulse Wave and it's limitations in one go, thereby making it something different than PW.
Again, am I just thick? Reading into this too much?
If so, please say, "Bugle, don't be daft."
I definitely see where you are coming from, but I think this is one of those things in this game. If you see the words "can use" and the name of some other power, you are good to go (no matter what any other words in the power say) .
My only thought is this: if you look at TPOK, it says simply that Metron can use PB, Quake, and PW. The limitation is in a follow up sentence.
In Mobius Chair, the three extra support powers seem like modified versions, 'once per turn', since they are described in the same sentence.
Compare it to this. If a figure had a SP that said "X can use Charge but does not halve his movement when doing so". Would In-Betweener be able to use this characters Charge, just not the full movement part. It seems to me that once the standard power is altered, it ceases to be the standard power.
I could be wrong. Just wondering.
Mobius Chair is not providing the use of a modified form of any SP's, Mobius Chair simply limits HOW MANY of those 3 extra powers can be used per turn: 1.
I definitely see where you are coming from, but I think this is one of those things in this game. If you see the words "can use" and the name of some other power, you are good to go (no matter what any other words in the power say) .
Quote : Originally Posted by Bat-Phreak
Mobius Chair is not providing the use of a modified form of any SP's, Mobius Chair simply limits HOW MANY of those 3 extra powers can be used per turn: 1.
Sounds cool to me. Thanks for the input, but you guys did not call me daft!
Now I have to hit myself in the head with a 2x4 before I go to bed.
Clearly, he can use Outwit and Prob, but can he use the others, Leadership, Perplex, and Support? I wonder because of the wording and limitations attached to the use of the extra 3 powers?
Hmm... If In-Betweener copies powers from Metron, Metron's controller can say which of the three powers granted by Mobius Chair IB can copy.
This is because Metron can use only one of those powers per turn and IB can copy only those powers the character can use. If Metron is using Leadership, he can't use Perplex or Support etc.
Hmm... If In-Betweener copies powers from Metron, Metron's controller can say which of the three powers granted by Mobius Chair IB can copy.
This is because Metron can use only one of those powers per turn and IB can copy only those powers the character can use. If Metron is using Leadership, he can't use Perplex or Support etc.
Except Metron won't "be using" any of those powers when In-Betweener is acting, as In-Betweener won't be using POA on Metron's turn. Metron will be able to use all those powers at the time POA is used.
Mind you, you're on to something. For example, if Ultraguy has "Ultraguy can use Probability Control, but only on his player's turn.", In-Betweener will not be able to gain Probability Control by POAing Ultraguy, because Ultraguy can not currently use PC (it's not his turn).
Similarly, if Ultraguy had, "Ultraguy can use Impervious, but only if he has no action tokens on him", when he has action tokens on him, and POA is used, In-Betweener won't be able to borrow Impervious (and the number of tokens on In-Betweener is irrelevant).
This sounds like the Earth man argument all over again. Wait, would that mean Earth Man can use one of the Metron POK powers without penalty as well? I love that figure more by the minute.
Quote : Originally Posted by Early Cuyler in Squidbillies, "Fatal Distraction"
Hell, I don't want to hear the labor, I just want to see the damn baby
This sounds like the Earth man argument all over again. Wait, would that mean Earth Man can use one of the Metron POK powers without penalty as well? I love that figure more by the minute.
Yep. Quake, Psychic Blast and Pulse Wave are all standard attack powers, so Earth Man would able to use one of them.
Same with Rogue:
Quote
POWER ABSORPTION: Once during your turn, you may give Rogue a free action and choose an adjacent character and a standard power (other than Outwit or Perplex) that they can use. Until your next turn, Rogue may use the chosen standard power. If Rogue has no action tokens or the chosen character is friendly, deal 1 unavoidable damage to the chosen character.
But not Gideon, because his borrowing power requires possession:
Quote
WILD GENERIC TEMPLATE: Once during your turn, as a free action you may choose a standard power possessed by another character within 5 squares. Roll a d6. If the number of squares to the character is less then the result, Gideon can use that power and possesses that character's range value until your next turn.
Except Metron won't "be using" any of those powers when In-Betweener is acting, as In-Betweener won't be using POA on Metron's turn. Metron will be able to use all those powers at the time POA is used.
Look at Mobius Chair again: "Once per turn, Metron can use one of the following powers: Leadership, Perplex, or Support."
The fact that Metron won't be able to activate any of these powers on IB's turn does not change the fact that Metron can only use (in the HeroClix sense of the word) one of these powers per turn.
So when it is IB's turn, Metron can use either Leadership, Perplex or Support. He can never use them all at the same time, so IB can't ever copy them all.
I think you're asking the question incorrectly, though.
In-Betweener copies the powers Metron can use. We know that if the powers Metron can use changes (if he takes damage), In-Betweener will have different powers, so his powers are a constant reference to what Metron can use.
Can In-Betweener use Leadership? Answer: If Metron can use Leadership, which he can, since Metron hasn't used any of his other powers.
Can In-Betweener use Perplex? Answer: If Metron can use Perplex, which he can, since Metron hasn't used any other powers.
Can In-Betweener use Support? Answer: If Metron can use Support, which he can, since Metron hasn't used any other powers.
Metron is the only one the restriction applies to, and Metron isn't going to trigger his limitation at any point on his turn, so In-Betweener will always have access to all three of his options.
The power is not "Metron can use X, Y and Z. If Metron has used one of these powers, he can't use the others."
His power says that in a given turn he can use one of those powers. Not all of them, only one.
Or trying to put it more clearly:
Every turn, Metron has to choose one power he can use. He can never use all three of the powers, so IB can never copy all three of the powers.
The power is not "Metron can use X, Y and Z. If Metron has used one of these powers, he can't use the others."
His power says that in a given turn he can use one of those powers. Not all of them, only one.
Or trying to put it more clearly:
Every turn, Metron has to choose one power he can use. He can never use all three of the powers, so IB can never copy all three of the powers.
It doesn't matter if Metron can use all three in a single turn-- he can use all three. Polar Opposite Attack has no limitation requiring the borrowed powers to all be usable within the same turn.
Supergirl has HSS and RCE on her second click. She cannot use both in a single turn. However, Polar Opposite Attack would allow the In-Betweener the use of both powers.
There is a very simple test to see if IB can borrow a power. Is it a standard power? Can the target use that power? If both are yes, then IB can borrow that power.
It doesn't matter if Metron can use all three in a single turn-- he can use all three. Polar Opposite Attack has no limitation requiring the borrowed powers to all be usable within the same turn.
Supergirl has HSS and RCE on her second click. She cannot use both in a single turn. However, Polar Opposite Attack would allow the In-Betweener the use of both powers.
There is a very simple test to see if IB can borrow a power. Is it a standard power? Can the target use that power? If both are yes, then IB can borrow that power.
When I say use, I mean use in the HeroClix sense of the word. Supergirl can use both HSS and RCE on the same turn. The fact that she can't activate them both on the same turn has no bearing on this matter.
Metron on the other hand can use (again, in the HeroClix meaning of the word) only one of the powers granted to him by Mobius Chair.
It's the same thing as with SI Namor's Aquatic Rejuvenation. If Namor is not it water, IB can't copy Regeneration from him.
On any given turn Metron can use (HC use) only one of the three powers given by Mobius Chair, so IB can only copy the one power he can use on that turn.
When I say use, I mean use in the HeroClix sense of the word. Supergirl can use both HSS and RCE on the same turn. The fact that she can't activate them both on the same turn has no bearing on this matter.
Metron on the other hand can use (again, in the HeroClix meaning of the word) only one of the powers granted to him by Mobius Chair.
It's the same thing as with SI Namor's Aquatic Rejuvenation. If Namor is not it water, IB can't copy Regeneration from him.
On any given turn Metron can use (HC use) only one of the three powers given by Mobius Chair, so IB can only copy the one power he can use on that turn.
I understood the term "use" in the same manner. Regardless of the fact that Metron can use only one of those powers on a given turn, however, Metron CAN use any of those powers; and the In-Betweener's Polar Opposite Attack allows him to use any standard powers that his target can use. The once-per-turn restriction of Mobius Chair is irrelevant.
Namor's Aquatic Rejuvenation is different because, if he is NOT occupying water terrain, he CANNOT use Regen.
Again, the test is simple. Is it a standard power? Can the target use it? If yes to both, In-Betweener can borrow it.
Both Namor and Metron have pre-requisites to how they can use their powers.
Namor can use his power ony in water.
Metron can use only one power per turn.
How are they different?
Quote : Originally Posted by Kyuzo
Again, the test is simple. Is it a standard power? Can the target use it? If yes to both, In-Betweener can borrow it.
But there is never a situation where Metron can use all the powers given by Mobius Chair. So the answer will never be yes to both questions when IB is copyng the powers from Metron.