Ill admit that I am reading definitions from a heroclix app. But they should be cut and pasted from the official texts. I can't link them right now, but go read the definitions for move, move action, super strength, and hindering terrain. Movement is is what happens when you move your figure between squares, move action allows you to move. SS allows you to pick up an object during an action in which you move. I believe I am correct if my app definitions match the glossary, PAC, and Rulebook defs.

Here are the relevant rules sections.

Movement: Hindering terrain impedes movement. A character that crosses from terrain that is not hindering for movement into a square that is hindering for movement must stop moving. Any character that begins its movement in hindering terrain halves its speed value before moving.
(2011 rulebook, page 10)

PICKING UP AN OBJECT
While a character using Super Strength is moving due to its own action, it can pick up an object. The object must be in either a square the character occupies or a square adjacent to one the character moves through. A character can pick up an object even if another character occupies the same square as the object. Immediately place the object token someplace that indicates the character using Super Strength is holding the object. If entering that square requires that the character end its movement, it cannot pick up an object adjacent to that square (the object must be in either a square the character occupies or in an adjacent square). If a character is not holding an object and is given an action that requires the character to not be holding an object during that action, then the character cannot pick up an object during that action.
(2011 rulebook, page 19)

Halving the speed occurs before moving. You pick up an object while you are moving. So halving happens before you have the chance to pick up an object. Pretty cut and dried.

Which brings me back to "if you pick up an object while you are moving, why do you get to ignore that after you move but before you end your action, and not before you move but after you've declared your action?" Why the double standard?

Which brings me back to "because you need to be moving to pick up an object, and you halve your speed value before you are moving."

There is no double standard. A character absolutely can not pick up an object after they move. A character that isn't being forced to end its movement when it enters the last square of its movement is still considered to be moving.

Also a character can't move onto an object and then pick it up, unless its movement isn't being affected by hindering terrain.

So, they can't pick up the object before moving while standing on the object and they can't pick up the object after moving while standing on the object. No double standard

think of it this way...
If you have a movement of 7 you can move out 7. Once you enter that 7th square you can still move ZERO more squares (as long as you are not adjacent to another character, or stopped by hindering terrain). Therefor you are still moving, inside the square you are in, and you can still pick up an object in an adjacent square.

ugh. this is the part that is confusing to me, but not from the OP. I got that- I start my movement in hindering, then as I move out of the square the object was in if you will, I pick it up. Movement is halved.
But this: If entering that square requires that the character end its movement, it cannot pick up an object adjacent to that square (the object must be in either a square the character occupies or in an adjacent square).


Does not support that I can pick up an object that is only adjacent to me AFTER entering the last square of my movement. I am required to end my movement in that square. How is that square any different than the requirement for an HSS character with Super Strength entering into a square of hindering, thus ending movement? I could be wrong, but until this thread, I was certain that a figure could not grab an object that was only adjacent if they entered a square that required them to stop movement, like basing a figure, moving your full charge, entering hindering, etc.

I was wrong earlier today on a similar object pickup question earlier today, just want to make sure I understand the ruling if it doesn't quite mesh with the excerpt bolded.

You are not required to stop moving when you have moved your full speed value, you just cannot move any further. There is a subtle difference there.

Yeah, that is what I was taking as implied from the thread. Seems like an added complexity to game lexicon, but ok. reaching your maximum movement doesn't "require" you to stop moving, but you must stop moving. hrmm.

So what about my other examples of ending movement and picking up an object?

a. Moving into adjacency to an opponent (assuming no powers that allow ignoring of characters during movement): a flier would be able to pick up that object adjacent to his last square, but a would not?

b. HSS into hindering- can't do it. (picking up an object adjacent only to the last square you entered and had to stop due to terrain)

c. Charge: similar to "a." in that if its a he can, but if a he cannot?

any other conditions similar to this that I'm just not thinking of right now?

The complexity derives from the fact that a move of zero spaces is still a legitimate move, but is distinct from not moving, which isn't even moving zero spaces. If something stops your movement, you are not moving, you are not moving zero spaces. Moving zero spaces allows you to pick up an object because it is moving. So, reaching the end of your maximum movement limits you to having zero spaces of movement left, which isn't the same as being stopped just yet.

I have no idea if this cleared things up or made it worse. : - )

Correct.

Correct.

Again, correct.

Aerial Baffler easily doubles the complexity of all these interactions by stripping the character of flight at some point in its journey. Your character with flight enters a square adjacent to an opposing figure, which is also the first square covered by Aerial Baffler. Was he a flier when he entered the square, and thus able to pick up the object before Aerial Baffler kicks in and makes him stop moving, or does Aerial Baffler kick in first and he stops?

I can never remember how this was ruled to work myself, and am just glad nobody ever uses Aerial Baffler at the venue I judge at, because the object gives me headaches every time I look at the thing.

Thanks! Yeah, I really think that early on, some RA ruling on "moving" 0 spaces probably made sense is some manner, but IMHO creates a needless layer of complexity that heroclix shares with few other games. Whether I stay completely still in a taped off square and call it moving zero, or I myself am stationary in said square but call it restricted from moving, I have still moved zero squares. I'm betting that this was not something that came from GD intent, but from a rules debate.

Anyway, as long as I know the ruling, we can move on with it. We were much closer to correct than to incorrect, but man, is that idea of moving zero vs. not moving being different an "interesting" argument.

If you are going to rule that you can keep moving without moving any spaces, than I suggest a change to the 2011 Rule book glossary under the word Move, which states:


This definition does not allow to keep moving, or move at all if you don't travel between squares.

Move action has a separate definition from Move, and it allows a fig to Move, but does not meet the definition of Moving, if the fig does not travel between squares.

There is timing to a Move action, just like any other action.
1. Declare Move action
2. Roll breakaway if needed.
3. figure Moves by traveling between squares (per definition)
4. Figure stops Moving (traveling) by choice or game effect.
5. Move Action is resolved

Picking up an object requires a fig to be Moving (traveling between squares). If you do not travel between squares, you are not Moving, even if you take a Move action.


I don't see any text that says "movement starts the instant a Move action is declared." Nor do I see any official text that states that moving 0 is considered moving. I could give a figure a move action, move 0, and end my Move action, and I don't believe that meets the glossary definition of Moving, or Rulebook definition of picking up an object.

Glossary text is not considered to be rules text, and should not be taken as such.

Then you must be using out-dated rules. This is in the 2011 rulebook:

MOVE ACTIONS
A character given a move action can move
up to its speed value in squares across
the map. A character might have a special
speed ability (see Part 3, p. 16) that affects
how it can move. A character does not
have to move its full speed value, and it can
choose to move 0 squares. Characters can
move diagonally, as shown in Figure 9.

(emphasis mine)

EDIT: Ah, I see you took your quote from the "Part I: Basics" section of the rulebook. If you want to know the rules of the game, just skip that part as it has no actual rules text.

....not to throw this discussion off topic, but I have another question about SS, movement, objects and stealth.

Simpy put: can Winter Soldier (holding an object) move with it, then drop the object to create hindering terrain to use stealth out of?

Because I'm under the impression that a character can't just "drop" an object being carried, but I'm just curious.