I would almost agree with this. But the aspect of "moving through squares adjacent to opposing characters" (like fliers, giants, etc) brings up the very aspect of "ignoring opposing pieces for movement". Because, normally you have to stop when you move into an adjacent square of an opponent (a core game concept). The only way to get around this is to ignore them. Now most of those abilities/powers may not use the terminology/lexicon the rule lawyers are looking for, but the idea of bypassing, instead of stopping, when getting next to an opponent is ignoring them. Just my 2 cents.

Play less HSS pieces, then...looking like you're the type that just has to run a HSS piece on every single squad you build.

It's a crutch, y'know?

Incorrect. "Ignore" is a very, VERY specific game term. If it isn't used in the description, then it doesn't happen.

Powers and abilities that make use of IM: oo or IM: oo> do not ignore characters.

I understand the game specific term "ignore" and I understand the difference between it and the oo> , but it seems to be skirting the issue I was bringing up. Its like going from 1 to 3, skipping 2 for a countdown, because we don't need it, just 1 and 3. I mean, maybe that was the point of the wordings with the symbols, but I don't understand how you can magicly bypass other pieces without "ignoring" them since you have to stop otherwise (even if the game term "ignore" isn't used).

I'm not trying to be difficult I just want want to know for sure that they bypass characters just "because they do...", and not because, they are avoiding something due to the game designers missing a word.

Because is "ignore" is a special term with a very specific meaning... and that meaning is what we care about. Call it "X" or "Bob" or "Super Fun Time!!!" if the word "ignore" is giving you a problem.

Characters can't "Super Fun Time!!!" Clayface for movement purposes. So you look and see what powers and abilities use "Super Fun Time!!!" Those three over there? Okay, you can't use those on Clayface. These two here, though, don't use "Super Fun Time!!!", so they will work normally.

A core game concept is that you stop moving when you move adjacent to a character. Another core game concept is that powers and abilities let you do things the normal rules don't allow. A flyer could still move by Clayface too, because the rules say they can, and it isn't because they ignore characters.

If Clayface said 'Characters who move adjacent to Clayface end their movement,' or something like that it would nerf that IM power.

Or I just thought the power is really good and you read way too far into others posts.

You overanylized to offer (poor) strategy advise in the rules forum.

Few of my teams have any hss since I really don't care for most hss pieces unless I'm playing chees to win but since i rarely play competitively and prefer fun, that doesn't happen often.

Anywhozzle thanx for chiming in. Perhaps consider that kind of advise for
A) the strategy section.
B) those that want it/ ask for it.

Thanks for clearing this issue up. I was on the losing side of this, but I see why you're right. It just doesn't feel right. I can only describe it as an unfortunate loophole of detrimentally specific wording. I do also understand that it is the details in the wording and jargon that govern ambiguous or vague rules, and the game couldn't function properly without them.

Still, I want to believe that this was not the intent behind Clayface, and the spirit of the figure is sadly overshadowed by the details in his wording.

Everyone is different, and what works for everyone is different, but for me: I just tend to glaze over Lancelot's and Krusticlese posts. It tends to make the 'Realms a more jovial place overall. Your mileage may vary.

Cheers.

I understand your feelings and I don't entirely disagree with them. But there are many factors operating on issues like this that we sort-of have to accept.

1) Game Design has to struggle (I'm sure) between "comic accuracy" and "effective gameplay." Look at the new Main-Set Blade. His Tracking Power will stop Flash or Superman from breaking away from him. It will NOT stop A werewolf or Vampire from Phasing or Leap/Climbing away from him. Comic-wise, this is bass-ackwards. Gameplay-wise? This makes him MUCH more playable.

2) Only the Golden Rules in Heroclix are "Absolute". For a long time we didn't really have power/ability interactions like we do now. They were mostly simple. Then there were feats, then Special Powers, Traits and the interactions got more complicated. They needed kind of a hierarchy in rules terms. So we started seeing "Can't Counter" (obviously been around for a while) but then we saw "Ignore" when they want to trump these.

It would be nice if we had almost a little chart that gave us this hierarchy. I know that NC and HoT Cap gave me fits for the longest time trying to figure what they do and do not trump. Eventually, I could see us getting Symbols like we have for Improved Abilities to make it more clear.

I was going somewhere with this... Oh, right (too early, too little sleep), don't EVER consider Spirit/Intent/Comic-Accuracy when trying to figure out what Powers Do. It's made things easier on me mentally since I did this.


Cheers.

So he is useless against HSS unless he gets that 1-3 when they attack and thats only if they have 0 range.

Well I want this piece that much less now.

How do you figure he is useless?

Suffocate: Ultimate Clayface can use Plasticity. Opposing characters adjacent to Ultimate Clayface can't automatically break away and can't ignore Ultimate Clayface for movement purposes. When an adjacent character fails to break away from Ultimate Clayface, it is given an additional action token.

Hypersonic Speed
Give this character a power action and move it up to its speed value. It automatically breaks away and can use [IM: oo] . During its move, this character may as a free action make one close combat or ranged combat attack with its range value halved for the attack. This character must be in a square where it could legally end its move in order to make the attack.


HSS characters can't automatically break away from Clayface. Plop him down next to them, and then watch them try to roll a 6 because of his Plasticity.

So the piece above which was agreed to by Chris ...states a character with HSS can indeed move away from Clayface with no issues even though the suction power states a character can not ...
and then we have Normalview stating that Clayface indeed will be able to tie up the Flash with no problems ...

So I just want to clarify ... and beat the dead horse ...

Flash uses a power action to use HSS... moves adjacent to Clayface with 5 movement left over, takes the attack and hits, deals damage and now has to roll suction. In which Flash rolls a 5 so he is ok to carry on his action. He then uses his 5 movement points to move 5 squares away, but in order to do this Flash will need to roll a 6 to get away due to Clayface's Suffocation SP...correct ?

Because we're talking about two different things.

He was talking about moving adjacent to Clayface mid-HSS.

I was talking about having the HSS character adjacent to Clayface when it was given the action, and thus forced to break away.

Not correct.

Break away is only rolled when two things occur:
1) The character is adjacent to an opposing character
2) It is given an action to attempt to move.

In your scenario, condition 1 is met, but not condition 2. There is no break away necessary.

Sigh...No.

You only roll for breakaway at the BEGINNING of an action where you will move. Until there's a power or ability that says otherwise (is there?), you don't roll for breakaway DURING an action where you move.