On the flip side, coming in late means you have access to more ship choices than those of us that were in the game from the start. I know I'd likely NOT have purchased several of the dupes that I did upon initial release had I access to some of the Wave 1 & 2 ships. But since I wanted options from the get-go, I purchassed what I did.

Let me know if you need any of the participation prizes. I have extras from the first three OP series (and the terrain elements if interested) and would gladly get them to you for a little bit of $$.

I might have couple extra first couple months of OP prizes around too. My daughter is playing in Month 2 next week and I had a kit so she might be up to selling them real cheap.

Hey, thanks a ton!

I'll drop you a PM tonight or tomorrow, after I've had a chance to gather my thoughts and take a look at the earlier OP stuff.

True, although all the early comers did have access to the same stuff at the same time - from WK - which was more my point. I certainly appreciate your willingness to help out, though!

curious what LE pieces you think are game breakers that people are at a disadvantage for not having? I think this is very balanced, aside from cloaked mines, and that there really isn't any particular piece that changes that.

To clarify, the only time I said "game-breakers" was talking about ship prizes, not participation stuff:
(emphasis mine)
Other than what I've heard about cloaked mines, I haven't seen or encountered anything yet that seems particularly unbalanced, and overall I agree that in terms of the content that has been released, Attack Wing seems pretty well balanced.

If LE named ship, captain, and upgrade cards for the prize ships are balanced, then I couldn't care less if those remained exclusive (i.e., 1st/Fellowship/Judge LE's rather than participation stuff). The point is, somehow or another you earned that prize, and it's all fine and good for an LE to mean something.

Stuff like the Elite Attack Die, Command Tokens, Redshirts, and so forth, however, strike me as unbalanced not in their own right, but because they were only available for a brief window of time, yet are very useful, and they're now widespread in people's collections but at the same time unavailable to newcomers. I don't currently have the option of using them only because I didn't get started on the game early enough (one can imagine any other number of IRL reasons that could get in the way), whereas any of the content that comes in any of the normal ship sets is just as accessible to me as to everyone else.

Now, like I said, I think it's encouraging that they're apparently not too difficult to obtain (thanks again, DS!), but ideally the responsibility of fostering a fun and balanced competitive tournament scene should fall on the shoulders of the game's creators, IMO, not acts of kindness by the community.

I don't really get the concern about people skipping out on OP events if participation prizes could be obtained some other way, though. People who want to play the OP events are going to come anyways, it's pretty much icing on the cake that the participation prizes are really generous. People who don't want to play OP events can print-and-play to their heart's content. The only concern is people who want to play an OP event, but missed some in the past. I just don't see allowing print-and-play (or, more ideally, purchasable) participation prizes from previous events being detrimental to the store or the tournament scene in that case. So they didn't make it to some events, they're here now, right?

I should also point out that, while I think I come across as bitter about this, it's mostly sour grapes from HC days and WK's general approach to organized play. I like the game a lot, my LGS seems like it has a great crowd of players, and I'm definitely planning to continue playing, regardless of how WK handles things, just because it's a fun game and a property that I love.

Sorry, bad choice of words? I was trying to ask if you thought any of the LE pieces were over powered, or gave someone an advantage over people who could not attend OP events.

I haven't seen the OP 3 sideboard in play yet, but I do not think the EAD, Command Tokens, Red Shirts, etc are necessary to compete. I personally have never used them and do just fine without them. I haven't seen anyone win an event with them now that I think about it. I definitely don't think they are necessary in any way to be competitive in the game.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. The company has fostered a fun and balanced competitive tournament scene, and has provided limited prizes to draw people to events and grow the game. It is not their responsibility to also make sure that any person who enters the game has access to every piece ever made. Now as a completionist, I know how frustrating that can be trying to track down everything, but thats life for us gamers.

People may skip OP events if they can get the stuff later on by direct purchase because of the expense it costs to play. Most venues charge between $10-$15 dollars to play, or require you to purchase another ship. As much fun as it is to compete in an OP event, I have just as much fun playing pick up games, and they don't cost me a thing. If I can purchase the LE ships for $15-$20 bucks a piece later on, why bother paying for just the chance to win them? I also don't think that any of the OP pieces are necessary to be competitive, so people who miss out and do not wish to track down the stuff on the secondary market or trade will not be at a disadvantage.

btw, personally I wish that all the game pieces were purchasable, and they didn't introduce resources into the game. But I do see why they do it, in order to promote the game.

If DS can't help you out with the Sideboard I have an extra. I also have an Elite Attack Die, but no card to go with it.

Did you like the box?

I actually haven't had time to open it yet. Been crazy getting ready for family and the holidays. I have been meaning to than you though.

Damn, was hoping for your utter joy. Good stuff in there

Lol, I just got home and opened it. Can't wait to play Romulans next week

Couple guys at the LCS are going to be pretty happy too

No worries! My misunderstanding.

I don't think any of the LE pieces are overpowered in their own right (from my limited play experiences so far), but I do think they give players an advantage over those who couldn't attend the OP event. From what I've seen, most of them look good. Not essential to a competitive build, but a solid option for their points, and that's one more item in some people's toolkit than others'.

I think what it really comes down to, for me, is that I started out as a wargamer, playing games like Warhammer, where rules and models are not inextricably tied together, and a very, very small minority of rules are limited in availability (and those are often not approved for tournaments). To me, an integral part of a balanced competitive environment is that all players have access to the same game elements.

Ironically, wouldn't the "exclusiveness" of participation prizes, and resulting apparent abundance of them on the secondary market, have the exact same effect? If people come to feel that they can just get stuff cheaply afterwards rather than attend the events, what does it matter where they get it?

In the end, though, I think WK would be doing venues a solid if they made participation prizes purchasable after the event. Then, venues would a) have a decent sense for how to fairly price OP event admission (cheaper than they would sell the kits for later, so there's a discount on that stuff and a chance to win an LE ship if you play an OP event), and b) be able to rake in a little extra income from folks who didn't make it to the event.

Buying a ship to play in an OP event strikes me as a reasonable expense since you're getting exactly what you pay for, and the event isn't actually costing you anything. All it does is ensure that people are also supporting their LGS, rather than buying stuff cheaply online and then coming to the store to play. Just plan your purchases around the OP event calendar.

I can get on board with that. I think they should follow the same model as HC with their prize LE's - alternate versions of existing (or to-be-released) ships. Kind of like I was saying before, in Attack Wing that would mean the same sculpt and the same stats for a generic ship of its class, but a different named version, captain card, and upgrade cards that are only available with the LE version.

Solid option and essential to competitive play are two very different things. Solid option do not give an advantage, just an alternative. This argument sounds more like "I don't like other people have something I don't" rather then "I'm worried about the competitive play environment"

Not at all. I can pay $10-$15 plus shipping on ebay to get the participation prizes, or I can pay $10 to my venue and get those prizes, play with some awesome people in a competitive event, and have the chance to win the LE. Its just nice to know if I miss an event I can pick the participation pieces up for a reasonable price later.

Totally disagree. Venues can't price the OP events cheaper because the kits are quite expensive. Not to mention if everyone can sell them, you will get a lot of people going online to get them instead of being driven to a venue to play in the OP event. Like it or not, these OP events do exactly what they are intended to do, and are a huge advantage to shops in selling merchandise. The little extra income a venue may get from selling the pieces later on, would more then likely be less then the income they make by having players attend tournaments.

I agree its a very fair and reasonable requirement to play in an event. However, after so long I really have little need for yet another copy of a ship. So if I could just buy the LE's I would do that rather then buy a copy of a ship I don't need in order to have a chance to win the LE I could have just purchased.

We don't know if Attack Wing is or isn't actually following that model. The Month 2 LE Klingon ship is being released in the next wave with a different named ship but same generic. I see no reason the rest of them won't be released as well. The only thing players will not be able to get down the road is the named LE version of the ship. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

More options when fleet-building means more potential strategies, which is in itself an advantage.

This is a pretty common response whenever there's any criticism of LE's. Maybe it's true for some people, but that's not the way I personally feel. I couldn't care less if other people have something that I don't have, but I get annoyed with WK when they deliberately make something fun and useful in the game, and that will in all likelihood see wide use, also limited in availability.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm advocating, only facilitated directly by WK rather than relying on secondary Marie availability. Why is it a nice back-up if you can get it on the secondary market, but problematic if WK offers it for sale instead?

Sorry, vague statement. Not that venues would charge less for OP attendance than they currently do, but rather that having a fixed price on the later retail version of participation prizes would allow venues to ensure that they're charging less for the event than for the prizes alone. Basically the exact same scenario you laid out above: either I can spend $10 to go ay a few games, maybe win a ship, and get some goodies, or I can pay $15 just for the goodies (a some point after the event).

I don't see any reason why WK wouldn't implement some sort of restriction on ordering, such that only brick-and-mortar stores who had run the associated OP event could place follow-up orders for a retail version of the participation prizes.

I'm not saying the current model doesn't work, I just think it could work better with some tweaks. A lot of games get on just fine without a large portion of exclusive content, and have thriving game communities that meet regularly to play in stores, where a lot of players in turn buy most of their stuff. WK are just doing things more-or-less the way they always have, because it works for them, but there have always been plenty of other approaches to promoting in-store gaming as well.



There have only been 3 events so far, and only a few more to go, with some new releases planned as they come along. It seems to me that it would be easy to plan out which ships you want, you could even plan your fleet builds ahead of time, and just wait and get a ship at each event. I can't imagine you'd end up with superfluous ships at that point.

So far it's 50/50, right? Of the prize ships we've seen, 2 are sculpts that we already have (or are about to get), and 2 are not. They may well release a D'Kora and Nebula class at some point in the future, but based on what we've seen so far it seems like it will be kind of a long wait, and neither really fits the Delta Quadrant theme (although surely some Nebula-class fought the Borg, so there's an opportunity there).

While I agree with the not to unreasonable part........this part is incorrect.....



The month 2 LE is

I.K.S. ChTang (B’Rel-Class)/ B’Rel-Class Klingon Starship (Dominion War Month 2 LE)
Front Firing Arc: 90° Rear Firing Arc: 90°
A: 4
E: 1
H: 3
S: 3 (2)
If you initiate and attack while cloaked, you may choose any number of your attack dice and re-roll them once.
Actions: Evade, Target Lock, Cloak, Sensor Echo
Upgrades: Tech, Weapon, Weapon, Crew
Points: 22 (20)


and the Wave 2 ship is.....

I.K.S. Koraga (K'Vort Class)/Klingon Starship (K'Vort Class)
Front Firing Arc: 90° Rear Firing Arc: 90°
A: 4
E: 1
H: 5
S: 3 (2)
Each time you defend while Cloaked roll +1 defence die.
Actions: Evade, Target Lock, Cloak, Sensor Echo
Upgrades: Tech, Weapon, Crew, Crew
Points: 26 (24)


Two different classes of BoP...........for me though, if I didn't have access to the B’Rel-Class one (which I do) I wouldn't be bothered.......as long as I have a general release BoP I'm good.