You are currently viewing HCRealms.com, The Premier HeroClix Community, as a Guest. If you would like to participate in the community, please Register to join the discussion!
If you are having problems registering to an account, feel free to Contact Us.
Frankly, if he had said any of those other things, I'd be a bit less apprehensive. I simply see Shuma Gorath far too often for my liking, and personally dislike hearing about it being the easy answer to "how do I beat this thing?"
I also think having a valid strategy against Bizarro (or anything for that matter) is more valuable to player growth and the game as a whole than having a specific counter-figure. Especially when weighed against commonly-used/seen figures that are extremely powerful or useful, like Shuma or the powerful Team Bases.
Outwit, Precision Strike, and characters that take away healing (Thanos, Sabretooth, etc.) are his biggest weakness. Outwit his Indom, Flight, and HSS and he is a slow sitting duck. Power Plant will allow you to do this.
30 IIMR100C Power Plant (complete)
200 IIM041BE Hyperion
45 CW022 Sharon Carter
25 FFCW005R Mockingbird
300
I skipped reading the more than the OP so sorry if this is redundant.
But my 2cents is, that, what will make him OP as far as healing goes is steal energy.
You hit him for 5, he takes 1. He hits you for 5, he heals 1. It's a loosing battle.
And if he can quake, it's all the better since each hit target counts as an individual heal.
So angrir's hammer and free action quakes will go a long way.
Also he could Xmen heal from the phoenix force. But thats probably too much work. Go with the hammer.
He's probably too good, but I don't think he's unbeatable by any stretch. Maybe I play HoT venom (GsX wolfsbane, WoS toxin, AvX Emma Frost, GsX or WX beast) and I drop the colossus fragment on him and outwit invuln when it comes up. I'm probably gonna kill bizzaro pretty easily unless he's really lucky. He's gonna have a hard time hitting or breaking away, and slowly but steadily, I'm wearing tokens off bizzaro.
But as I said, he is probably WAY too good as is. Could you theoretically play him at 25 points, park him in your starter zone with donald blake and go to town, getting an extra token every turn? Maybe sitting next to ASM Dagger or something similar that can heal him of a damage every turn.
He's probably too good, but I don't think he's unbeatable by any stretch. Maybe I play HoT venom (GsX wolfsbane, WoS toxin, AvX Emma Frost, GsX or WX beast) and I drop the colossus fragment on him and outwit invuln when it comes up. I'm probably gonna kill bizzaro pretty easily unless he's really lucky. He's gonna have a hard time hitting or breaking away, and slowly but steadily, I'm wearing tokens off bizzaro.
But as I said, he is probably WAY too good as is. Could you theoretically play him at 25 points, park him in your starter zone with donald blake and go to town, getting an extra token every turn? Maybe sitting next to ASM Dagger or something similar that can heal him of a damage every turn.
He ignores characters for movement so he breaks away when he wants to and:
When Bizarro is healed, add one Orrazib token to his card (no more than the initial amount)
He ignores characters for movement so he breaks away when he wants to and:
When Bizarro is healed, add one Orrazib token to his card (no more than the initial amount)
I believe if he was adjacent to Venom (or anyone with plasticity), he would still have to roll to break away; You can't break away automatically, I don't know how that affects ignoring characters for movement
I believe if he was adjacent to Venom (or anyone with plasticity), he would still have to roll to break away; You can't break away automatically, I don't know how that affects ignoring characters for movement
if you ignore characters, you ignore plasticity (except on nml clayface and I think cop cars)
The problem from a metagame perspective is that teams geared towards beating Bizzaro probably can't beat anything else(Shuma aside, but he's another problem by himself). The only way to get him is a swarm team, which will get eaten by a tent pole. Tent pole teams will lose to Bizzaro because they can't damage him fast enough, and we're left with a terrible Rock/Paper/Scissors metagame.
The Poison is a good idea but Angrir's Hammer gives Toughness. No matter how many Outwits you throw at him he'll always have Charge and at least a 10 attack, and since he rolls for his dial change at the beginning of his turn there's a decent chance he won't even have what you Outwitted anymore.
Trying to swarm him, any attacks will have to get through his mix of Senses, Shape Change and Imperv. Assuming 250 Bizzaro, Splitlip and the book you'll have to damage him 10 times, not counting his healing from Steal Energy(and possibly Quaking with it).
The Highfather is probably the best bet but it's not quite an 'I win' button. It would be difficult but possible for Splitlip to get hammered and thwack someone, or use Quake. One point of damage and the pact is broken, and then Bizzaro smash. With Skadi's hammer and the book benefits Splitlip has a 12 attack Charge with Perplex.
90% of rules questions are answered by RTFC. Most of the rest are answered by a proper grasp of English and common goddamn sense.
Trying to swarm him, any attacks will have to get through his mix of Senses, Shape Change and Imperv. Assuming 250 Bizzaro, Splitlip and the book you'll have to damage him 10 times, not counting his healing from Steal Energy(and possibly Quaking with it).
Except you don't need to do any of that to win. You only need to take out Splitlip and NOT lose 20+ points of pieces. That is not that difficult to accomplish. I think the Hellfire TB can do it easily, I think the JL TB has a good shot at that. On an indoor map (and you should get map choice) two barrier pieces (20-38pts in Modern) can keep him from ever doing anything.
And ALL of our worrying also ASSUMES there isn't some kind of counter for him in the set. What if we get a Superman that takes off two Orbs every time he damages him?
aqhoffman- greatest post possibly ever
jtallday- Jon I wouldn't challenge you if I wasn't sure you are wrong cuz I don't have that kind of energy.
Except you don't need to do any of that to win. You only need to take out Splitlip and NOT lose 20+ points of pieces. That is not that difficult to accomplish.
With a team base, maybe. But I'm going to be doing everything I can to keep Splitlip away from you, and I still have the entire round to try and KO your team base. With anything else there's going to be something that Bizzaro can take out to get points.
Quote : Originally Posted by jonidschultz
On an indoor map (and you should get map choice) two barrier pieces (20-38pts in Modern) can keep him from ever doing anything.
Except for those Sidestep clicks. Or Kuurth's hammer. At 300 points you're going to have what, maybe a +3 to map roll? Hardly something to base your entire counter-strategy on.
Quote : Originally Posted by jonidschultz
And ALL of our worrying also ASSUMES there isn't some kind of counter for him in the set. What if we get a Superman that takes off two Orbs every time he damages him?
A silver bullet that specific isn't a valid answer when we're talking about the entire meta-game. Unless that hypothetical Superman is also a great meta-piece he'll only be good against Bizzaro(and not even very good at that), and he'll get destroyed by any other team.
Again, the problem isn't beating Bizzaro. It's beating Bizzaro and having a shot at beating anything else. Rock/Paper/Scissors is a terrible game model.
90% of rules questions are answered by RTFC. Most of the rest are answered by a proper grasp of English and common goddamn sense.
I think this is a good exercise in brainstorming ideas, so kudos to the OP. I think he just wants people to just start throwing ideas against the wall and see what sticks. It makes for good discussions about the metagame (and pieces like Highfather and Bizarro). There is no need for flippant responses.
Anyway, I actually think that Thanos might be a really good answer in this metagame because of all of the little healing shenanigans going on with pieces like Shuma, Bizarro, Grundy, Bane, Void or anything with Angrir's Hammer. Not sure how that would look, as I'm sure that Highfather would be troublesome for Thanos.
I think this is a good exercise in brainstorming ideas, so kudos to the OP. I think he just wants people to just start throwing ideas against the wall and see what sticks. It makes for good discussions about the metagame (and pieces like Highfather and Bizarro). There is no need for flippant responses.
Anyway, I actually think that Thanos might be a really good answer in this metagame because of all of the little healing shenanigans going on with pieces like Shuma, Bizarro, Grundy, Bane, Void or anything with Angrir's Hammer. Not sure how that would look, as I'm sure that Highfather would be troublesome for Thanos.
150 GG045R Thanos
13 GG014B Astral Dr. Strange
13 GG014B Astral Dr. Strange
100 ASM033R Man-Thing
24 IIMR100 Power Plant
300
One astral gets black light and the other matter Rearranger. That leaves 5 rings to drain for Outwit. Outwit his IM and HSS and Man-Thing can put a serious dent in Bizarro with Poison. Ill have to play test this one. The Hyperion team I posted beats him in case anyone was wondering.