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As you have quoted, objects have to be a combination of the three types: Heavy, Light, Players Choice (Relic, Heavy, Light, Immobile). According to the wording on the flight ring:
Your force may include up to 3 of this relic regardless of its type. While this relic is assigned to a character, it can't roll to be assigned any other relic. This character has the Legion of Super Heroes keyword, "wing symbol", and may carry friendly characters regardless of their speed symbol. This character can use Defend and Toughness.
You are allowed you play multiple flight rings. So that means that the normal rule of
Object 1: Heavy
Object 2: Light
Object 3: Relic
Turns into:
Object 1: Heavy or Flight Ring
Object 2: Light or Flight Ring
Object 3: Flight Ring
You are already choosing to play your 1 allowed relic by playing 1 flight ring. The power simply states that you can choose to run multiples of the flight ring as opposed to the other two objects. What you are stating, using the same template as above, is
Object 1: Flight Ring
Object 2: Flight Ring
Object 3: Relic of your choice
You are assigning the the first two flight rings as the heavy and light and ignoring that one of them has to be assigned as a relic first.
Another thing that I am curious about is why would you want other relics on your force when figures with the LR cannot be assigned other relics anyways. Are you really planning on picking up that many relics in one game?
Unless you come play in our Relic Wars games, where we specifically allow you three relics and you automatically succeed when rolling for them! Yay Relic Wars!
1 Heavy
1 Light
1 Other (can be Heavy, Light, or Immobile).
With that you add:
1 Flight Ring
1 Flight Ring
1 Nova Helmet
Ok so here are how the checks work:
You add the Nova Helmet it must occupy the Immobile spot.
You attempt to add Flight Ring #1. You fail as the first one must be added to the Immobile spot which is currently occupied by the Nova Helmet.
"But why?" you ask.
It is all in the text.
"Your force may include up to 3 of this relic regardless of its type." Ok so what? Well does this text tell you that it does not occupy the Immobile object slot? No it doesn't. So the first one must occupy that slot. Secondly it tells you that you can have up to 3 of this relic regardless of its type. This does not say up to 3 of this relic regardless of any relic's type. There for it only lets you break the Assignment of object types for extra Flight Ring's beyond the first. If you cannot legally assign the first to your Immobile spot you cannot add any additional Flight Rings.
I hope this helps.
Let me know if you still see any areas of contention and I'll continue to attempt to resolve.
Quote : Originally Posted by dairoka
I'm pretty sure Dragon has the Future keyword and Probability Control.
Quote : Originally Posted by jonidschultz
Dragon is correct. Dragon is always correct. Never argue with a Dragon.
Any or all of the objects on your force may be special objects, but each special object must not have the same name as any other special object on your force.
Will the Legionnaire Flight Ring be receiving errata to allow my force to include up to 3 regardless of its name too?
Sun Tzu Clan Leader
Quote : Originally Posted by Uberman
When a game hums along, full of action and excitement, it's a barnburner!
When it trudges forward glacially, bogged down by debates over ridiculous rules minutia, it's a Barnstable!
"Your force may include up to 3 of this relic regardless of its type." Ok so what? Well does this text tell you that it does not occupy the Immobile object slot? No it doesn't. So the first one must occupy that slot. Secondly it tells you that you can have up to 3 of this relic regardless of its type. This does not say up to 3 of this relic regardless of any relic's type. There for it only lets you break the Assignment of object types for extra Flight Ring's beyond the first. If you cannot legally assign the first to your Immobile spot you cannot add any additional Flight Rings.
I hope this helps.
Let me know if you still see any areas of contention and I'll continue to attempt to resolve.
I disagree with the Red Text. The special rules for the Legionnaire Flight Ring says it may be included regardless of its type, so why does it need to occupy the "Whatever" slot of your object selection? Wouldn't that be doing precisely what it tells you it is exempt from by saying it "Must be this type?"
I disagree with the Red Text. The special rules for the Legionnaire Flight Ring says it may be included regardless of its type, so why does it need to occupy the "Whatever" slot of your object selection? Wouldn't that be doing precisely what it tells you it is exempt from by saying it "Must be this type?"
But it is still a relic. So let's say you do as you suggest a pretend it is a light object for purposes of creating your object pool. Fine. Not a problem so far.
But then you go and try to put another relic (maybe a Phoenix Force Fragment) on your force, too. At this point, you now have two relics in your object pool. That can't happen. The only relics that will allow to keep ignoring the type is another Flight Ring... anything else will fail the "one relic" check.
But it is still a relic. So let's say you do as you suggest a pretend it is a light object for purposes of creating your object pool. Fine. Not a problem so far.
But then you go and try to put another relic (maybe a Phoenix Force Fragment) on your force, too. At this point, you now have two relics in your object pool. That can't happen. The only relics that will allow to keep ignoring the type is another Flight Ring... anything else will fail the "one relic" check.
But that is precisely my problem - there isn't a "One Relic" check, just limitations based on type. And the Legionnaire Flight Ring can be added without regard to type. Since I am pretty sure you check force legality after all is said and done (rather than with each addition), wouldn't you look at three objects on the finished force, and see one object that is immobile and two that say "We can be here regardless of type?"
But that is precisely my problem - there isn't a "One Relic" check, just limitations based on type. And the Legionnaire Flight Ring can be added without regard to type. Since I am pretty sure you check force legality after all is said and done (rather than with each addition), wouldn't you look at three objects on the finished force, and see one object that is immobile and two that say "We can be here regardless of type?"
Ok. I see what you are saying. Could the wording be clearer? Yes it could. Hopefully this is one that the Deputies bring up for clarification during the upcoming PG which we already know will be out soon.
Until then we have a standing ruling made by a Deputy (Mister ID) who states that you can only have more than one relic during force construction if those relics are all Flight Rings.
According to the official rules of this game any ruling made by a Deputy on this website is law until it is either overruled by another deputy or clarified in a rules document that is created after that ruling was made.
Quote : Originally Posted by dairoka
I'm pretty sure Dragon has the Future keyword and Probability Control.
Quote : Originally Posted by jonidschultz
Dragon is correct. Dragon is always correct. Never argue with a Dragon.
Ok. I see what you are saying. Could the wording be clearer? Yes it could. Hopefully this is one that the Deputies bring up for clarification during the upcoming PG which we already know will be out soon.
Until then we have a standing ruling made by a Deputy (Mister ID) who states that you can only have more than one relic during force construction if those relics are all Flight Rings.
According to the official rules of this game any ruling made by a Deputy on this website is law until it is either overruled by another deputy or clarified in a rules document that is created after that ruling was made.
Yes, their posts are official; however, they usually go to great lengths to make sure that they are just clarifying ambiguous wording. When making new rules out of whole cloth, they tend to indicate such by acknowledging the way they are ruling isn't supported by the official documents, with a future errata forthcoming to bring the official documents available at Heroclix.com in line with the changes their ruling made on this independent website.
I appreciate the time that the Deputies take with our questions, but I want to understand the reasoning behind rulings that don't agree with the text put out by Wizkids.
Should it not be? I want to understand what is actually restricting me from running two Flight Rings and a Mother Box, and I don't see a restriction in the rules that isn't overridden by the text of the Flight Ring.
Honestly?
No this should not be a question. There is no ambiguity here.
Quote : Originally Posted by Brightblade
Yes, their posts are official; however, they usually go to great lengths to make sure that they are just clarifying ambiguous wording. When making new rules out of whole cloth, they tend to indicate such by acknowledging the way they are ruling isn't supported by the official documents, with a future errata forthcoming to bring the official documents available at Heroclix.com in line with the changes their ruling made on this independent website.
I appreciate the time that the Deputies take with our questions, but I want to understand the reasoning behind rulings that don't agree with the text put out by Wizkids.
This is only a clarification. There is no "new rule out of whole cloth" here.
Quote : Originally Posted by DemonRS
Justify to me why this thread is necessary and I'll keep it open..
Quote : Originally Posted by Girathon
It pissed me off all weekend rorschachparadox wasn't dead.
Honestly?
No this should not be a question. There is no ambiguity here.
This is only a clarification. There is no "new rule out of whole cloth" here.
Oh really? I clearly see where the Legionnaire Flight Ring exempts itself from the restriction on types of objects allowed on your force. I do not see where that exemption creates a new restriction that it can only apply when compared to other Legionnaire Flight Rings. Adding such a restriction as MisterID has is creating a new rule where there was none before. Just because you feel that there is no ambiguity here does not mean there isn't any.
If anything, there isn't any ambiguity that you can have Legionnaire Flight Rings on your team without regard to type. Whatever other Objects are on your force have no bearing on the inclusion of any Legionnaire Flight Rings, precisely because they don't care about their type.
Quote : Originally Posted by Thrumble Funk
Alright, would it be safe to call this thread "Rules Porn?"
I don't know where that came from, but I doubt we have an official Justice Stewart to declare it such. Pretty much any rules thread that requires half a dozen Rules Deputy replies and still doesn't reach clarity of reason could be "Rules Porn" in my book.
Honestly, as far as rules go, you are the only one not seeing the clarity of it. Yes, you can argue there isn't a comma but it clearly states you can only use multiple relics if they are legion rings only. I honestly don't get how this is so confusing. It isn't even like this is to the point of game breaking that it needs to be looked at word for word, punctuation for punctuation.
Oh really? I clearly see where the Legionnaire Flight Ring exempts itself from the restriction on types of objects allowed on your force. I do not see where that exemption creates a new restriction that it can only apply when compared to other Legionnaire Flight Rings. Adding such a restriction as MisterID has is creating a new rule where there was none before. Just because you feel that there is no ambiguity here does not mean there isn't any.
If anything, there isn't any ambiguity that you can have Legionnaire Flight Rings on your team without regard to type. Whatever other Objects are on your force have no bearing on the inclusion of any Legionnaire Flight Rings, precisely because they don't care about their type.
Yes really.
You asked. :shrug:
Quote : Originally Posted by DemonRS
Justify to me why this thread is necessary and I'll keep it open..
Quote : Originally Posted by Girathon
It pissed me off all weekend rorschachparadox wasn't dead.
Honestly, as far as rules go, you are the only one not seeing the clarity of it. Yes, you can argue there isn't a comma but it clearly states you can only use multiple relics if they are legion rings only. I honestly don't get how this is so confusing. It isn't even like this is to the point of game breaking that it needs to be looked at word for word, punctuation for punctuation.
I don't know that I'd consider being game breaking to be one of the reasons that something shouldn't receive scrutiny, although I can certainly understand when game-breaking stuff does receive a light degree of it.
I just don't see any wiggle room in this.
Quote : Originally Posted by DemonRS
Justify to me why this thread is necessary and I'll keep it open..
Quote : Originally Posted by Girathon
It pissed me off all weekend rorschachparadox wasn't dead.