If you KO the rest of the team, then you automatically get the total points of the team's build. Plus, there could be an exception that this time "remove from the game" could possibly mean scoring points. If I was judging, I'd rule that you get the points, but either way, if you get team, then you are awarded full points.

OK, I understand you *desperately* want to be a Rules Depute. We get it. If that's your bag, go nuts...

... but nowhere in that e-mail chain does it describe my scenario.

The Rules team said you only get points for Entity if *The Entity* ends up on a KO click, not the Possessed. You are saying that when the Possessed ends up on a KO click that you score the Entity. That's not what they said and it's not how the Entity's power reads.

Or am I missing something in that e-mail where it works like you are interpreting it to? Because the answer they gave you is not how you understand it to work.

If the Possessed has less clicks than the Entity, you will never see the Entity's KO clicks which is the stipulation the Rules team gave you for awarding KO points...

Can you point out where the Rules team told you that when the Possessed figure is KO'd that you score full points for the Entity? 'Cause it 'ain't there. The Entity needs to land on a KO click according to that e-mail.

From one of the other three threads on this topic.

There is a confusion about scoring and elements that are removed from the game. The only elements that you do not record points for are those that do not have a point cost.

The reason you do not score points for the New Mutants Team Base characters removed from the game from the base is because while on the base they do not have a cost. You increase the cost of the Team Base by 5 for each character you attach, but those characters themselves do not have a point cost while attached to the Team Base.

You do not score points for Draining a Ring from the Power Plant because again they do not have a point cost while on the Power Plant. You increase the point cost of the Power Plant by two for each ring, but the Rings themselves do not have a Point Cost while on the Power Plant.

An Entity when only used as a Possessor has a point cost of 25. You do not increase the point cost of the Possessed character by 25. That is the difference.

Trying to take shots at me will not make you right. I've explained this multiple times in multiple threads now why you are wrong and how/why it covers your concern. If you continue to take needless shots at me I will put you back on my ignore list. I am doing what I can to assist you. I already know how it works and do not need to go through this exercise with you. This is 100% for your benefit and for the benefit of any/everyone else who is confused by these things.

There was not a Blanket rulemade at Origins. My email even covers that there is not a blanket rule that you do not score points for game elements that are removed from the game.

If the specific element that is removed does not have a Point Cost you do not score points for it. If the element that is removed from the game has a point cost then you score points for it. Period.

Sorry for the double post. I can see where you are coming from to a point. The last line from the last email could be seen as ambiguous. I read it as the Entity is KO'd when it hits a KO slot OR it is removed from the game and then you score points if either happens.

You clearly do not read it that way. So again if you wish to have that part clarified I highly suggest that you email the rules team to clarify that portion.

All I'm saying is that you are being *very* liberal with your interpretation of what that e-mail said.

Did the rules team not say "An entity is KO'd when it is turned to a KO click and removed from the game. Victory points are scored for the cost paid when adding it to the force during force construction." ?

No where did they say "You score points for the Entity when the Possessed is turned to a KO click." They said when the Entity is turned to a KO click.

How are you making that leap and preaching it as gospel?

If Parallax gets KO's, no points are scored and he possessed friendly figure (A) with 5 clicks of life.

Friendly figure (A) takes 6 clicks of damage and is KO'd. I turn Parallax's dial 6 clicks and there is no KO's on slot #6 on Parallax, so no points are scored since the Entity needs to show a KO click.

That was what I thought the difference was. I see them as trying to say:
An entity is KO'd, (note I'm adding the comma here as I think that was intended and clarifies things) when it is turned to a KO click and removed from the game.

Meaning if either happen.

Now I say this based on the explanation that they gave for the Team Base Characters and the Rings. Where those elements do not have a point cost by themselves and they only increase the cost of something else. The Entities however do have a self contained point cost so if they are removed from the game the award points.

I'm not supporting that e-mail system since, as this thread has proven, is horrible.

I'll wait for a Depute to post, but I think the either the entire power needs errata, or they need to change awarding victory points under the 'would be KO'd' and 'removed from the game' clauses.

That's the only way to close the loophole.

Krusti - dude come on. Firstly you and I both know that the rules team will not post in this thread. They have removed themselves from this site. It has been two weeks since any of them have posted in the rules forum here.

Second, there is NO loophole. I keep telling you and pointing you to the email that shows this.

If a game element that has a point cost is removed from the game points are awarded period. End of story no ifs ans or buts about it.

The only reason that points are not awarded for Self Sacrifice or Draining a Ring is because those elements DO NOT HAVE A POINT COST. There are no points to be awarded because they don't have points to begin with. Just like the Hammer Time Word Balloon. Do you think points should be arbitrarily awarded for Hammer Time when it is removed from the game?

The Entities have a point cost. Since they have a point cost if they are removed from the game then points are awarded.

I'm not blaming you or calling you dense or obtuse or anything. It is a pain in the ass topic and it took a bit of a back and forth with the rules team for me to understand the distinction itself.

Somebody should really email the rules team and ask them how this works.

We don't know any such thing. There's been no announcement of them not posting, and while they haven't posted as frequently lately, they haven't stopped entirely.

Two of them on my buddy list are online right now.

Could this be the answer?

I double emphasized the word "and" because it shows the dial of the entity behaving in 2 different ways.

1. Whatever click number the possessed character is on, that is what the entity is on.

2. You change it in the same way the possessed character's dial changes

Using the earlier example of 30pt Loki. When you deal 3 damage to Loki, he isn't just off the map because he is on click 4 and there are no numbers. He is off the map because he has become "defeated".

There is an actual rule for what happens to figures who land on KO clicks. Otherwise those figures would just remain on the map. So there is obviously a change in what is happening to the character's dial. It is now defeated, meaning the Entity is now also defeated due to clause 2 of the first sentence of the Possessed trait.

This is incorrect. No member of the rules team has posted in the rules forum for over 2 weeks.

The actions speak louder then any words.

Yeah, but that is clearly saying SOMETHING more than what they are not saying.
I mean, what's the deal?

I like watching people argue, however I just emailed the rules team this and will post once they respond:

Me
7:44 AM (0 minutes ago)

to HeroClixRules
I am playing WOL065 Parallax (or any Entity) at full point cost of 250 points. On my team I have FI104 Loki on his 2nd click.

My opponent does enough damage to click Parallax to his KO click. I enact his trait (bolding emphasis mine):

ENTITY POSSESSION: When Parallax would be KO'd or, if you pay 25 points when building your force, place Parallax on another friendly character's card if that character is 25 points or more, has the "fist" or "sharpshooter" symbol, the "shield" or "indomitable" symbol, and the "tiny" or "burst" symbol. That character has Parallax's keywords and can use the Possessed ability with this character as the Possessor. When that character is KO'd, Parallax is removed from the game.

in combination with the other trait:

POSSESSED: Click the Possessor's dial to the same click number as this character and change it during the game in the same way that this character's dial changes. At the beginning of each of your turns or after this character takes or is healed of damage and actions resolve, you may choose 1 power showing on one Possessor's dial and 1 combat value on one Possessor's dial higher than this character's printed combat value. This character can use that power and modifies that combat value by +1 until your next turn or until it is healed or takes damage. If the Possessor is turned to a KO click, it is removed from the game immediately.

it puts Parallax on the 2nd click.

My question is: Does my opponent score Parallax (or any other entity) points when I activate the Entity Possession trait?