And you'd be wrong.
Multiple judges (a purple included) have already said in this thread how the translation should work.

Not quite. Anything that affected the old "-2" on Regen would now directly affect healing. Iron Man only had to subtract 1, instead of 2, which always resulted in one additional click of healing, so that is reflected in the errata.

Hulk, on the other hand, essentially just adds another step to the calculation. What he does isn't tied directly to the basic Regen wording, so while it does end up giving a different result now, it still functions perfectly fine as written.

As always, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And to be perfectly clear, it works like this-

Activate Regen, trait triggers, remove X Anger tokens. Roll the d6, add X. Regen now has a number to look at, and tells you to heal half that much damage.

I understand why you interpret it this way, and thank you for communicating it as clearly as possible. I would prefer that WK goes through their library of things and erratas all of them, but they claim they're a small enough company that they don't have the time to do that. If there was an other figure that added to the result instead of modifying the subtraction which also got errata, I'd be there with you. The common thread between the pieces that received errata is that they all modify subtraction, and I get that you're trying to be as minimalist as possible. I just feel the intent was "instead of modifying the result, these things are modifying the healing."

The problem is, those terms used to mean the same thing... the result was the amount you healed (- 2), but now the result has another calculation after the result comes up.
It's an unfortunate victim of the wording change, similarly to how WXM Gambit no longer works the way he was designed or intended either... but that happens when the wording of powers change.

In spite of the fact that both effects specifically SAY to modify the result? I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I honestly don't see how these effects can be interpreted any other way but "add then divide".

While I definitely play it as add then divide by two, Organous' viewpoint makes sense from intent. It used to be that each token you removed cause Hulk to heal one more. Keeping it that way makes sense. I don't do it that way because I think the wording of adding to the result means you do it before dividing, but the other view isn't unreasonable.

It's not unreasonable, as there is precedence. I agree that by default I would play it as worded, but if a judge decided to allow the other formula, I don't think that would be wrong or unfair.

Now to get technical, just for fun. Overall, Regen's average healing increased by 20% with the new wording. That means about roughly 1500-1800 got 'buffed' with this new wording. I found 6 relevant errata's here. Firstly, there is Count Nefaria, Cannonball, and Mary Marvel, who were all errata'd to just not halve the result. This equates to an equal powered Regen, instead of the 20% increase. Then, there is Dr. Cyber, who, though the healing isn't affected by her special power, the bonus effect is, and she was errata'd to where there was an equal probability for those effects. Then we have, of course, Iron Man, who's errata mirrored the same 20% increase in average healing. Lastly, there is Talon, which is variable as it is based off of his current action tokens, where 2 tokens grants him the same 20% buff, 1 token grants him a break even with the old wording, and 0 tokens grants him actually a 15% loss. Keep in mind, his Regen is still more potent than standard, the comparison is power level pre vs post update.

Then, we have Hulk. Using the formula (Roll+Tokens)/2, he obviously has the same 20% buff when removing no tokens. However, diminishing returns hits in hard, and his average Regen with removing 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 tokens changed 0%, -14%, -22%, -27%, and -30% respectively. Looking at the formula Roll/2+Tokens, there is still diminishing returns, but at least is always stays positive, to match the buff that standard Regen gained, with respective 20%, 14%, 11%, 9%, 8% power levels for 1-5 token removal. To put it another way, with the first formula, his average healing plummets per token removed in comparison to how it used to work, while with the second formula, the average heal is always .5 higher than his pre-update average heal, aside from 0 token removal, and this more accurately reflects the overall buff that nearly every other Regen figure got.

Yes, of course, with changes some figures get better and some get worse, I'm just saying if you want to more accurately reflect how he used to play, you would use the second formula, but I wouldn't go into it expecting anything other than the first formula, it would just be up to the judge. There are of course other factors to consider, such as pre-change, Hulk needed to remove 2 tokens minimum to guarantee heal, while he doesn't need to remove any now.

Just to add to the discussion, have any of you considered proper mathematical order of operations as of yet? I would think that could go to great lengths to settle things and keep it closer to the original intent.

Pre-change: the order of operations would have equal footing as it was subtract 2, and add whatever number of tokens you wanted. They hold relatively the same place in order of operations, so the tokens power to heal was fairly potent.

Post-change: order of operations would dictate you MUST divide first, and then add. So Regen roll/2 and THEN add tokens remains potent in effect.

Personally, my preference would be to side with interpretation via order of operations, thus leaving the Hulk and his tokens to remain a potent healing effect.

That's not how the order of operations work.
DIvision has higher priority than addition, but that doesn't mean you always divide first, just because there's a division somewhere in the calculation. Parentheses have even higher priority than division, and more importantly, you can't just rearrange everything however you want.

Regeneration says to roll a d6 and heal for half of the result. So:

result = d6

heal = result/2

Hulk's power says to increase the result by the number of tokens removed, so now it's:

result = d6 + tokens

heal = result/2 = (d6 + tokens)/2

We can argue about intent vs. wording, but mathematically, this is how it reads.

I see - there is an implied "(" around the Regeneration calculation that I did not see there until you parsed it as you did above.

I was thinking regen d6/2 = result, and then add rage tokens, in the absence of any clear "(" in the directions.

In the absence of an outright mathematical equation, I am not sure it could be more clearly spelled out with only words alone. Perhaps with a more clear wording on The Hulk's power, but then it was perfectly clear with the intent as well given the Regeneration power text at the time it was created - very clear interaction. Now - a bit more fuzzy, IMO, but the intent seems it was to be a potent healing effect - now? Not so much a potent healing effect, and actually it gets kind of weak the more tokens you throw at it.

:shrugs:

I just thought it was one more element to consider. I think the intent is very clear, even if due to new wording, the mechanics are less effective.

I am fine running it either way pending my judges ruling, but it is good to understand both sides fully, IMO.

Yes, the implied parenthesis comes from the very specific way both effects use the word "result". The tokens increase the result, making the result itself larger. Then Regeneration says to heal equal to half of the result, so since the tokens are part of the result, they are part of what gets halved.

I agree that the original intent is closer preserved by adding the tokens after halving, but as many have said, that's not how it's worded. And the consensus seems to be to stick to the wording, as long as it works.

That was one tough debate I had with myself when the rules changed... let figures that didn't work the same (or right, in some cases, like XS or Gambit) work the same way as they used to as a house rule or have everything as worded (with modern erratas taken into consideration with those powers that don't work as written). This hulk certainly makes for a long conversation for players that weren't aware of the impact (as this thread has made obvious), but on the whole, it seems best to leave everything as written/errata'd to minimize confusion with newer players that never knew the old rules.

Fyi I covered this 2 years ago here:

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showth...highlight=hulk

Great post.

Since the new rules have de-powered figures, we still play them as they were originally intended to be played with my group. I always ask what's the point to not be able to use your favorite piece? I mean, look at multi-attack, although it's no longer in the game, without DDM those figures are ridiculous to play with and should have a 20 to 50 point increase. As you can see, things can get crazy as the game has evolved past figures you may have spent a lot of money on.

So as it stands, if you play with my group for the Hulk roll d6/2 and then add Anger tokens to Heal that result. Simple.

If someone spends a lot of money on Heroclix items and cannot understand that the game will evolve past most all of them sooner or later, I suggest this might not be the right game for that person (your play group excepted, of course)