Monsters don't have priority............................................

kevin, what ever happened to that priority thingy you was sending to konami?

btw, dont bypass the 50 char limit. if ya cant type 50 chars, then dont post. lol.

Ok Mr. Tewart...youi are officially messing with my mind. Do you mean monster effects???

I too an dissapointed at your lack of 50 characters. =)

Strike Ninja is a Spell Speed 2, and when used in direct response to a summoning it would be considered normal chaining, not the use of Priority.

The use of Summoning Priority is exclusive to Spell Speed 1 manually activated monster effects. Triggered effects (such as Breaker's) will automatically use Priority and add themselves to the chain block. "You" don't use them, they automatically use themselves.

This is essentially on the right track. The term "Cost Effect Priority" is incorrect, as well as the "Cost Effect" monster effect category. It is simply manually activated Spell Speed 1 monster effects, that can be used in response to a summon when utilizing Priority.

Additionally, Multi-Triggers do not use Priority, you are using normal chaining in that case, due to them being Spell Speed 2 and fast enough to activate at any time.

The idea here is that using Summoning Priority for Spell Speed 1's allows you to activate a Spell Speed 1 effect when you normally would not be able to, because the event of summoning (while having no Spell Speed itself) is too fast for you to manually activate Spell Speed 1's. So a special provision has be made to allow the Turn Player to utilize a Spell Speed 1 effect of the monster summoned and only the monster summoned, in direct response to the summon as [Chain Link 1].

Absolutely, "you" the Turn Player have priority, and can utilize it when you summon a monster with a Spell Speed 1 effect.

OK...I am treading on dangerous ground here (drum roll please :p ):

1) What the nefarious Kevin Tewart meant to say is that monsters do not have priority, PLAYERS have priority.

2) Having (or retaining) priority for the most part means you get the opportunity to put your "effect" as chain link one.

3) If you choose to activate an effect (and it becomes chain link one), then you "give up" your priority to your opponent, who then has the chance to chain with any applicable effects.

Example:

I summon Time Wizard.

I declare I will retain priority in order to activate Time Wizard's effect (I start looking for my double-headed quarter :p )

<Priority now passes to my opponent, since I have activated an effect>

My opponent says he will chain to Time Wizard's effect by activating his trap, Ring of Destruction (target: Time Wizard).

<Priority now passes back to me, since my opponent has activated a card effect>

I tell my opponent to take his Ring of Destruction and to shove it up his...ahem, cough,cough; I tell him I have nothing to add to the chain.

<I have declined on activating an effect, priority now passes back to my opponent>

My opponent says he will chain and activate his trap, Barrel Behind The Door.

<Priority now passes back to me, since my opponent has activated an effect>

I choose not to add to the chain.

<Priority now goes to the opponent since I have declined to add to the chain>

My opponent chooses not to add to the chain as well.

<Priority now returns to me since the chain is done and will now resolve>

Here's the chain:

Link 1> Time Wizard's effect (me)
Link 2> Ring of Destruction (opponent)
Link 3> Barrel Behind The Door (opponent)

OK, so just resolve backwards. I wind up taking 1000 damage to my LP.

BTW, for those who are wondering, my choice to use Time Wizard as an example was a deliberate one. Since Time Wizard is considered to be a cost effect monster. One of the conditions in which the turn player can retain priority upon summoning is if they use a cost effect monster ability right after they summon.

Thanks for reading !!!

P.S. Kevin, you really have to tease everyone into a frenzy don't you? :p

well at least now i don't feel as stupid. =) I guess I should really start reading up on what everyone has said. =)

Well, now that Mr. Tewart has opened the flood gates (with less than 50 characters - impressive).

You do have the ability to activate Cost Effects upon the successful summon of a monster. You also have the ability to use priority to activate Spell Speed 2 and higher effects as well. Multi-Trigger Effect Monsters fit in the latter category, assuming timing is otherwise correct.

As to the comments by others concerning Breaker, the placement of a counter on Breaker is a triggered effect that is placed on the chain immediately upon summoning. A player is not using priority to do so.

I just want to correct this statement from my previous post.

As far as I understand, Spell Speed 1 triggered monster effects seem to be handled differently. A triggered effect does not necessarily "use/use up" priority, but forfeits your ability to utilize it (in the case of summoning). It prevents you from utilizing priority because the rules of chaining do not allow a manual chaining of Spell Speed 1 effects. The only case where Spell Speed 1 effects are chained together is in the case of multiple triggers being activated and placed on the chain at the exact same time, these are handle in a SEGOC fashion, for example, 2 Sangan's sent to the grave by Dark Hole.

Additionally, triggered effects (from a monster in this case) can be activated, put on the chain, and resolved at any time during the turn, even though they are Spell Speed 1, and can also be any link in the chain. For example, there are many monsters which have their effects triggered in the Damage Step (ie. Don Zaloog, etc.) which we all know is a no-no for manually activated Spell Speed 1 effects.

Conversely, manually activated effects (Spell Speed 1) must always be the first link in the chain, and can only be activated in the Main Phase.

Just to give a simple example of this, 2 scenarios.

Scenario 1: Cannon Soldier is face-up

- The turn player normal summons Gemini Elf

Question: Can you use Cannon Soldier's effect?

No, you cannot, because it was not the monster summoned, and its effect requires priority to be eligable for activation after a summon.

Scenario 2: Strike Ninja is face-up

- The turn player normal summons Gemini Elf

Question: Can you activate Strike Ninja's effect?

Yes, you can, because Strike Ninja does not require priority and is fast enough to activate at this time.


Thats my input into the discussion (maybe it was too much).

Just my thoughts...the official definition of priority might prove me wrong in the end, but this is how i've viewed it (from research as well).

first of all nova, i think you have a typo in your post, i think you meant does not necessarily "use/use up" priority. (i figure this, just from the context of your statement.

also, you state that trigger effects can this could be taken as meaning that if triggered mid-chain, they can be put on a chain, which is incorrect, as they are only speed 1. it can also sound like you are saying that trigger effects can trigger and resolve during the resolution of a chain, which is also wrong (this sounds more like continuous effects).

those were just things that i figured were probably just typos on your part. but your explanation of strike ninja not having priority makes no sense. you say that when he is summoned, you can use his effect, but that this isn't priority. but you didn't state that you were giving your opponent a chance to respond to his summon before using his effect, this cannot be done without using priority.

although i wouldnt be terribly dissapointed if multi-triggers didn't get to use priority, simply because if you summon strike ninja, and your opponent uses some type of effect in response to the summon, you can chain strike ninja's effect to the opponent's card. so in essense, multi-triggers don't really need priority, as they can chain to the summon response card (unless its a counter trap, but the only counter traps i know of that can respond to a summon are HoH and SJ which would negate the summon and prevent the effect from being used anyways.)

Yes, it was a typo, your correction is the correct one, i will change it.

Lets bear in mind that the rules of proper chaining are implied here...i appologize if my statement wasn't 100% clear...i'm just trying to put some things into perspective.

What I mean is that triggered Spell Speed 1 monster effects can activate during any Phase/Step of the turn (of course chain rules, and card text still apply), so an effect such as Don Zaloog can be activated and put on the chain during the Damage Step, even though it is Spell Speed 1. This is unlike manually activated Spell Speed 1 effects.

This is more of a technicality in theory, rather than in real practice. In reality using the effect of Strike Ninja directly after a summon has exactly the same appearance of utilizing Summoning Priority, but as you said, it is not necessary.

I'm simply stating that, while a very small nitpik, priority is there to be utilized by Spell Speed 1 manual effects, Multi-Triggers do not need this provision, and are not bound by the same limitations, as my example shows.

So whether you view it as Summoning Priority or not, is up to you. In theory though, you are just using regular turn player priority and responding to activate first. It really does not make much difference from a gameplay point of view.

Hopefully what i'm saying will be addressed by the essay...if not...well...oh well ...i'll look like an idiot...:(.

man your a tough guy to please these days phiefer :ermm:

well, on the strike ninja point (well i guess its actually just a general point on multi-triggers) i see it as having 1 or 2 possible answers (which you seem to suggesting a combination of the 2 which isn't right, IMO of corse)

the 2 possibilities i see are either 1) multi-triggers have priority, and can utilize it at the time of their summon. or 2) multi-triggers don't have priority, in which case the opponent would get first chance to respond to the summon and the multi-trigger would have to be chained to it.

from what you are saying, is that they don't have priority, but can still be used before the opponent responds, which is not possible, priority is the only thing that lets you manually activate an effect before the opponent gets to respond to the summon.

and this could be relevant, as say strike can use priority. then when summoned, you activate his effect, then the opponent uses trap hole, trap hole would destroy strike before he can remove himself. if stike can't use priority, then he would have to wait until the opponent responded, and then chain to the card. this may seem pointless, as it would mean it's smartest to simply wait and chain to the opponents card (so that strike resolves first), but what if a card is made that's activation costs somehow would interfere with strike ninja?

(not saying it will ever happen, but theres always a chance that it could) like if a card required you to remove a card from the opponent/both/any graveyard(s) as an activation cost. this could potentially hinder strike's ability to activate his effect. and if strike cannot use priority to activate first, would not be able to chain either since he wouldnt be able to pay his cost. these little technicalities, while normally have no effect on the game, could potentially be important bearing in mind that the future holds cards and effects that may do things that no other card has been able to do.

EDIT: i don't know why, but whenever i post on priority, my posts are always long.
also, you ever get the feeling that if they waited long enough to release the priority essay, that people like us would figure it all out on our own?

What i'm saying is that there is a difference between Turn Player Priority, and Summoning Priority (better known is "Cost Effect Priority"). Its not that they "don't have priority", priority is a specific term, that you utilize, not something the monster has.

Cost Effect Priority, as its better known as, is a specific special provision made for Spell Speed 1 effects. Multi-Trigger's (being Spell Speed 2) do not need to use, nor care about utilizing it. It does not hinder Strike Ninja, as you can still use its effect after a summon, its just technically, your not using Cost Effect Priority, your just using your normal right to activate first.

Maybe i'll just pm you with more later?

Well, considering that there already is an official definition on priority, but its just not written in english, i'd say that there is probably more than enough people out there who know exactly how it works.

Yeah, priority creates more than a mouthful of content.

first off, i know that its the player, not the monster, that has priority, its just easier/faster to say this has or doesn't have priority, rather than always saying the can use/can't use priority.

also, i still disagree about this. turn player priority, is not retained after you take an action. turn player priority is simply that when there is, i guess you'd call it "dead time" when nothing is happening and nothing has just happened (and somebody must play/do something so procede with the game), that the turn player gets to, unless they pass it to the opponent.

like you say that when you summon strike ninja, you don't use summon priority, you use TP priority to use the effect immediatly, because you have TP priority, this is just wrong. when you summon a monster (or take almost any other action, such as setting) your opponent in effect has what i would call "response priority" as they get the first chance to respond to that action (unless summon priority overrules it).

for example, if i summon a gemina elf, i cannot activate a trap card(such as reinforcements) using TP priority before my opponent gets a chance to activate their trap hole/etc. this is common knowledge that the opponent gets to respond to each of your actions first unless summon priority overrules it.

wow, i just came up with something that some people might see as a type of priority. and if if you consider these 3 things to be priority, and consider them to be separate, i guess TP priority is at the bottom of the food chain, with response priority above it, and summon priority on top (unless you could summon negating cards like HoH to have their own type of priority)

umm, it's probably smart to disregard my last paragraph(i'm only leaving it for those who are interested in my views). because if you think about it priority is just word being used to discribe a type of mechanic on how things are played, and if you want you can call just about anything a type of priority. (like i did there at the end with HoH)

EDIT: i removed another paragraph that had some of my thoughts on priority and order, that would probly cause more trouble than it's worth.

However you cant chain to a card thats already been destroyed, if i play exiled force and use prioraty for its effect, its already destroyed before you can chain anything to it, unless it negates the whole summon. Same is true for cards like CED, the only thing that can prevent the effect is Horn of Heaven or Solemn Judgement.