Unfortunately, the rules again disagree with you, Tkwiget.


the thing is that with the release of Fusilier (and other cards like it that mention 'original ATK becomes'), we were introduced to a new mechanic: An effect that could override the printed value of the card.

not a problem. I wish I could say being wrong was a rare occasion for me. But, hey.....Im kind of getting used to it.:p

glad I could help though.

i have to vioce on the side that ectoplasmer would deal 700 damage. like was already said, fussiler's effect actually changes what its "original atk" is. this is shown directly in the megamorph ruling, which states "If you have "Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast" with original ATK of 1400 " which pretty much says that fusiliers effect changes the original atk.

also as was shown by squid, ectoplasmer shouldn't be compared to flamewingman or nitro unit. since both of those have the text "destroyed and sent to the graveyard" which means that they are triggered after the monster is in the graveyard and is no longer effected by atk/def modifications. which is likely why neither of these use the term "original atk" since the only atk a monster in the grave has is the printed value

the fact that ectoplasmer does specifically refer to the "original atk" of the monster, implies that there could still be modifications to its "current atk" at that time. which to me implies that you are determining the damage while the monster is still on the field.

Although many people here have the question answered correctly, the answer has not been answered adequately. I'll try to break it down a little.


Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast
Effect Monster (Machine / DARK / 7 Stars / ATK 2800 / DEF 2000)

This card can be Normal Summoned or Set without Tribute. In that case, the original ATK/DEF of this card become halved.


It seems like some are mixing up 'original attack' with 'printed attack.' Printed attack IS NOT a term that is ever used anywhere in this game. I'm not playing with words or doing anything deceptive - there is no mechanic that includes anything with the ATK or DEF value that is printed on the card.

Moving along, suppose I summon Fusilier without a tribute. His original attack is then 1400. Therefore, any modifiers applied will be placed on his original attack (which is 1400, in this case).

Suppose the modifier is Megamorph; Megamorph is a very interesting card: it is one of the only cards in the game that modifies ORIGINAL ATTACK VALUE(do not mix this up with attack value that may be a result of some other card [Rush Recklessly, for example]). If I equip Fusilier with Megamorph (the dragon has not been tribute summoned), his original attack would first be 1400 just after summoning. After Megamorph, his new original attack would be 2800. If I equip the Megamorph'd Dragon with Axe of Despair, his attack value would be 3800. This is very simple.


Back to the question: Ectoplasmer v. Fusilier (No Tribute)

Ectoplaser looks for original attack. The original attack of Fusilier is 1400, therefore, Ectoplasmer deals 700 points of effect damage.


This should have explained everything in full detail. If there are any questions, please ask.

By the way, while we're referring to the Flame Wingman/Fusilier ruling, has anyone other than me noticed that the ruling that is on the Upperdeck site (2800 damage) is NOT the same ruling that we were given for the TLM prerelease:

If your "Elemental Hero Flame Wingman" destroys a "Fusilier Dragon, the
Dual-Mode Beast" that was Summoned without Tribute, inflict 1400 damage
to your opponent's Life Points.

If you don't believe it, go back and check the judge's list.

I just found it interesting, especially since they didn't send down a message that I remember seeing saying "Oh by the way, we're changing this ruling" as they do with other cards sometimes.

I think it also at the least gives credence to both sides of the argument and that we should get a definitive answer on both Ectoplasmer AND Flame Wingman now lol

That's the ruling that Half gave at the beggining of the thread and the one I posted earlier from Nitro Unit
also let me to believe that it can actually be 1400, now there are as you said Jeff similar rulings for both parties, and suddenly this is beggining to become a custom around this site :p

Jeff:
I remember that, and the uproar it caused online, when people were discussing how an effect that re-set the 'original' ATK could stay active even in the Graveyard. It slipped my mind though, when the current ruling was posted earlier in this thread.

All I can say is: good! It should have been that way at first. This is just another obvious example of UDE quietly changing things without owning up. I tell, I don't mind to company being wrong, but I would have a great deal more respect if they just openly stated as much, and made sure to public was aware of the correction.

Newspapers and editors have to issue public retractions. Judges are morally expected to go back to players that they gave an erroneous ruling on and make things right (or at least understood). So why not the companies that are in charge? Its like a petulant child lying about not peeing in their pants when you can obviously see they did.

Actually Coolkid70, BEFORE the whole "Original ATK" thing was the way it is now, original ATK ALWAYS meant what was printed on the card and not just because a card stated so.

This is why, before Fusilier Dragon's ruling was changed, you could equip a 1400 ATK Fusilier Dragon with Megamorph and since its "original" ATK was 2800, it would be boosted immediately to 5600. That's probably one of the reasons why they finally got around to actually having Original ATK be what the Original ATK actually changes to, so now Fusilier Dragon with Megamorph only goes to 2800, King of the Skull Servants will double depending on the amount of Skull Servant/King's are in your Graveyard and such.

Man I got more answers than I expected. I appreciate all of you that posted. I am going with the majority. From what I am hearing FDtDMB will only do 700 damage when summoned without a tribute becuase that becomes the original attack no matter what is printed on the card. I wish they would hand down an officail ruling but I think I will go with this. Too bad this would have been great in an ectoplamser deck. Again thank you everyone for your help, I truly appreciate it. Peace

im going to say 700 because of the megamorph thing with fulsier... maybe someone should email teh maker ;)

I am aware of this.

I did not bring this up because we don't need to be looking at the past - we only need to look at the present and future. Otherwise, it becomes very confusing for those who do not understand this concept.

Sure, this information can be useful when analyzing the trends of UDE, but this has no relevance to the question at hand.

very true. We don't want to bring up the way many cards "used" to be ruled. eegad! :p

btw: TitansWrath, Im glad we could help clear this up for you. But, I really don't think a specific ruling should be necessary, as long as we are able to do what we did: look at existing rulings and extrapolate the evidence for this case.

Hopefully, with time and persistence, the templating of effects will be consistent enough that we will need much fewer rulings and simply use outlines of the mechanics.

'Course, then there are the 'older' cards, and their incaccuracies.....:) gotta love this game!