you know what i find amazing.

the fact that the rule book, in all it's simplicity, was actually a pretty good template for things to come.

whoever actually came up with the basic rules of this game (along with MtG for that matter) did a pretty good job of setting up a framework of phases and steps that have not had to be revised (but clarified and expanded a lot) and the game tends to expand and evolve more and more...

just my 2 cents...

They however did not envision Yu-Gi-Oh! to get so far from where it started.

Overall, things are starting to slowly and painfully make sense to most of us. =)

Wow, this is a popular topic as of late around the net 8^D

From the way I've been processing things here's how I work on explaining Drillroid and other cards. Remember that there are 4 substeps to the Damage Step of the Battle Phase

1) If the targeted monster is face down, flip it into face up defense.
2) Calculate and apply damage.
3) Resolve any effects.
4) Send Appropriate monsters to the graveyard.

Monsters like Mystic Swordsman LV2, upon reaching the damage step will immediately destroy the monster instead of processing substep 1, which immediately bypasses substeps 2 and 3 and we reach substep 4 to send the moster to the graveyard.

Drillroid uses his effect AFTER substep 1 and bypasses substep 2 to automatically destroy the monster. We still go to substep 3 since there are effects to resolve and then we reach substep 4. Since we never performed damage calculation (Drillroid bypassed this) the monster is not considered to have "battled" and thus fails to meet the requirement for its effect to activate.

Indeed, this is a new definition of what it means to "do battle", but it will help as we continue to resolve things.

Ok, so where does that leave us with the ruling below, which is from the UDE Specific Card Questions FAQ?

Am I right in saying that that ruling is now out of date?

No, its not out of date. The term "Battle" now refers to its battling with a monster, including the damage calculations.

Out of date would not be the proper approach, more like Konami is clearing and defining even more what a Battle involves.

as i mentioned earlier its the definition of "to battle" that is out of date. now "to battle" requires that damage calculations be conducted and applied.

so as the ruling is stated, its still true, but what is considered a monster that battles it is different. drillroid is no longer considered a mosnter that battles with him since there are no damage calculations.

okay... why would it not be applied?

activated/triggered monster effects are independent of their sources once placed on a chain.

doesn't that still hold true?

in the case of LJM, it's a delayed trigger, but a triggered effect nonetheless... or am i missing something here? i've been out of the YGO loop for a while, so i'm not sure if a new ruling has come to bear.

btw, just saw the rulebook for Naruto. this game should give YGO a run. there's only a couple things i find that will cause problems, but the game is quick to learn, and should have a lot of expansion possibilities. its got parts of YGO (the chain works the same way), Magic (using a Resource based way to play cards, and the battle system works similar to MtG where the attacker chooses who to attack, the defender chooses who to defend and where), an evolving way to 'up' your ninjas without using your one-deployment per turn, and a bunch of other things.

exactly fantassyz, the rule still holds true, but there have been slight revisions to what it means to battle with a monster.

it used to be just entering the damage step meant that it battled LJM, and thats why it used to be ruled that LJM would still destroy drillroid.

but now its been changed that in order to "battle" the monsters must go through damage calculations and applications. in other words, battle involves battle damage.

based on this, and the fact that drillroid doesn't apply damage calculations (no battle damage is done) drillroid doesn't battle LJM and the rule isn't even applicable to the situation.

the rule is still true for other situations, where a monster effect would destroy LJM after damage calculations.

Glad that's cleared up. I've been trying to get clarity on the term "battle" for a couple of months now. Most of us had assumed as much....but as a number of you well know, you can't assume too much with this game and not end up looking darn silly eventually.

yes, the ruings like this (and the other few drillroid rulings for this set) do seem to give a new clarity to the term "battle"

the ruling essentially says that since there were not damage calculations there was no battle. therefore: battle=damage calculations

*and there was much rejoicing*

yes.. sooo glad that is finally cleared up...

Phiefer how come ur still only a level 1 judge? i figured u'd be at least level 2 by now...
I'm (hopefully) taking the level 3 at PC Atlanta.. assuming Ian Estrin knows that im a level 2 by then... I passed the level 2 test in august 2005... :S its still not on the website..

I'll make sure to tell Ian not to test you. =P

Have you confirmed with Ian that there will be open testing available and under who your testing was done under???

krahe, believe me, i ask myself the same question. but i don't really get a lot of opportunities to go to any major events. i haven't been to a single sneak preview, and i've only been to the same regional twice, and they weren't doing any tests either time.

if i ever get the oportunity to take the level 2 test i will.