But since the design of the game will inevitably favor Aggro/Control (unless we go back into the game's history when the two were separate entties, in which case Control was usually favored), CyDra goes where he likes. Interestingly enough, CyDra can go in a burn deck. Machines have an excellent burn combo that requires one turn to kill and three cards to pull off: CyDra+Cannon Soldier+Limiter Removal=death.

Excellent article ZaQ, you said everything that needed to be said about the power of Cyber Dragon.

I enjoyed reading this...and the debate that followed.

Thanks Zaq, you've perfectly set the field for my next article, or at least a portion of it. Was just thinking about old Cy Dra and how disgusted I've become with running him sense the tins allowed us "broke" duelists to have a few. His power is grossly inflated by his ability to support nearly everything in the game. Konami dont have the... well... lets just say they're not brave enough to restrict/ban him.

A tournament worthy deck would have to be more carefully set up, this was quickly thought up to give an example of a deck that has no use for cydra. I figured if I waited 5 days to reply to build a carefully thought out deck as an example that wouldn't come across too good :rolleyes:

He's not broken enough to be banned. There are plenty of answers to cyber dragon.

He may very well be limited, someday, a few banlists down the road, merely to encourage people to play other cards, but not because he NEEDS to be limited. Either way, they won't touch it until sales of cydra products will drop. As a fan favourite of the TCG and the anime, and all the cards relying on him, konami/UDE can't touch it now, that would be financial suicide.

But I don't see why they should ever touch him. Good as he is, he's not a threat to originality or super-broken or anything.

Actually it is. When I say I win using a GK deck, I want to be sure that's accurate. To win using the GK strategy and not a 30-card cookie cutter with a few GK cards thrown in, where the GK's really didn't play much of a role in my win. I'd feel like a traitor to my principle of originality if I did that.

Which brings us back to what your suggestion for such a deck would be that doesn't involve spirit reaper, exiled force, breaker and the like ...

Yes, and we keep coming back to it because you keep avoiding the answer. I gave you a quick draft of a deck and asked where cydra fit in. You said it would fit if it was playable. I asked how you would make it playable without making it a cookie deck ... you never answered. Why ? Because you can't. Cydra fits, because your definition of playable is taking out a lot of the consistency and support to side in CC cards you feel more comfortable with.

In essence, that is the disease of the meta. People are afraid of what they don't know, afraid of going to competition with something new.

If you feel you are ever in a situation where you have nothing to tribute for, then you probably have a flaw in your deck. Most tribs sit in hand waiting for something to tribute for it ...

If we couldn't keep the debate civil, I probably wouldn't participate. The idea of message boards is to come together as people with a common interest and widely differing opinions in an effort to learn and teach at the same time.

I wouldn't debate you if I didn't respect your opinion. Or mine for that matter.

Uh, I agree that Cyber Dragon pretty much gains a place in all Aggro decks. But I agree with Belgian that it will rarely work in a dedicated Gravekeeper deck seeing how all GK decks have 3 Spies and a bucketload of defenders -_-. Its a deck that can easily pull out 2 monsters on the field without Cyber Dragon. Cydra would only get in the way of Gravekeepers.

Oh yeah, I doubt a dedicated Gk deck would be able to run Cydras in a 40 card build.

Okay, personally I am not a fan of Cyber Dragon being thrown in every deck, but I do have to say I did have some good luck with it in my Burn Deck since I do end up with nothing on the field and then I can Special Summon Cyber and then set something like a UFO Turtle or a Giant Germ in the same turn. I got 3rd place at a large card shop tourney last night, so it did help me a little bit. It may not be a burn monster but it helped me have a little field presence and also being able to play two monsters in one turn as well. Which really does help with some of the monsters I use.

I think that was the point of zaq's article. Just disliking a card doesn't mean you shouldn't be using it. Every card is worth a try, and especially one as good as cydra. My point is that you should be careful not to run a card, no matter how good, just because you like it.

I think cyber dragon Is a Very versatile card and can be a staple.But since Most of the field Uses it. We should say its a staple. Not every card that is ultimately called a staple such as a Graceful charity is always run... because sometimes people dont run it because they dont want to run it because every1 or other bad reasons. But we cant say that charity is not a stample because a few people do not use it, such as a few people who do not use cyber Dragon.

In regionals i was Forced to only be able to run 1 Cyber dragon, because my teamate borrowed my deck because i had my invite, and he needed his. Therefore, i let him use my deck to try to t4, Which he did.

But anyways, i went 6-2 in regionals which was bad comming off from a couple of t8's. Also because the two cards that sub'd cyber were two moths, and they were too slow. Plus that Cyber was really a key card to my deck that i did not have. Cyber is a pusher, makes field advantage, can be an easy sacrafice, and is a beatstick while this format is big in lp.

It can gain quick advantage.

I have Cyber in Hand. My opponent Has a Don in attack mode. SS Cyber he Attacks Don +1 and your opponent loses lp.

Your opponent Has 1 Monster f/d 1 M/t SS Cyber He attacks. Opponent Flips saku. Cyber dies, and then to protect your lp you can set a Monster in MP2 as Zach said.

The part with Meta, well meta isnt greta this format. Banning the ter, really killed meta being used. But Cyber can be one of the easiest ways to get out Balter. And Can actually help out fusion type decks. That just bring out fusions the whole duel.


Cyber Dragons+ Monarchs is powerful.

Say your Opponent Had a Kycoo and a F/d Monster

Cyber Dragon Sacrifice Summun Zaborg or Gran. Kill F/d Attack Kycoo. A Gain of Advantage.

People Can argue he is not a staple and never will be.But zach pointed out alot of good points and why Cyber Dragon he is good.


Good article zach.

Peace

In all honestly have you ever seen a dedicated GK perform well on a consistent bases? And have you ever noticed that one person's dedicated GK deck looks exactly like the other person dedicated except for the number of whichever GK monster?

Don't get me wrong or all irrate now, I understand a GK decks poweress and its advantages but the truth is, its basically a field card dependant weenie deck when you look at it. And for the most part field card dependent decks struggle in any metagame. I'm not saying they don't win a tourney or regionals from time to time. But the majority of players understand its fundemental flaw of the deck fairly quickly. Not many decks can be crippled by 1 MST or dust tornado like a field card deck.

Honestly for GK to evolve, players have to get away from the "dedicated GK" build because the only originality in the deck at this point of the game is that you'll probably be the only one playing for the time. Not because your decklist is original.

I actually see no reason NOT to run Cyber Dragon in a GK deck. Usually in GK decks you want to shy away from Tribute monsters because except for GK chief, You'll have to tribute summon your monster since you'll often lock your graveyard to revivals. Cyber Dragon will give you a 2100 ATK monster that doesn't depend on Necrovalley to compete. And like are author of this post pointed out, Cyber Dragon often survives has a free tribute fonder which is perfect to get your Chief out. GK decks are also AGGRO decks once Necrovalley is in play and Cyber Dragon is a nice quick aggro card. Sure you'll "taint" dedicated GK decks with that metallic abomination but thats why its called a "dedicated" deck and you run it that way because thats how you like your GK decks.

Fundementally you'll have a quick 2100 ATK amongst your 1500/2000 ATK line up. You'll have a quick tribute fonder to get you Chief and to gain a strong advantage over your opponent field/effect/playablity -wise. You'll have a way to deal with most monsters currently played until you can draw into Necrovalley. And you'll probably gain a psychological advantage since if your lucky, 1) They'll be like "WTF? Cyber Dragon with GK?" or 2) You'll be able to beat your opponent without ever using Necrovalley or showing off any unique card, giving you an advantage when they try to side deck and Game 2. Tomatoes, Spys and every now and then spear soldiers are often played in decks. Giving your deck a more covert build is always a nice advantage that I enjoy personally. We all hate it when we lose game 1 and all we saw was Sangan, Nobleman of Crossout, Cyber Dragon, Breaker, D.D. Warrior Lady, Tomato and then all the usual spell and traps.

No one has ever relied on pure ATK power to win with a GK deck, so that point is mute. Likewise, the whole point why cydra is a waste in such a deck is because it keeps monsters on the field like nothing else, so you'll never want for a trib for the chief. Even more, if you trib a GK (which is what you'd do in a dedicated deck) you even get your monster back.

Actually in this day and age, you'll find that field cards offer a major advantage to a lot of decks. You could run necrovalley in basically any deck and get the advantage. That single MST and the occasional dust tornade really don't bother me much with 3 field cards and one or two terraforming. The real threat for a field card player is ... another field card player, because playing another field card destoys your field card. But since everyone thinks like you, this is actually a great time to play field cards.

The point however seems to be lost on some of you. Its not that cydra doesn't work in a GK deck, but that there are several decks that don't have any use for cydra. The GK being an example I just thought up on the spot to illustrate.

I think that this is a moot point. I like that deck you posted, but a simple swap of any single card that isn't required or simply the inclusion of more cards would allow Zaq to stick a Cyber Dragon in there.

For example, if we rotated out the Gravekeeper's Servant for two copies of Cyber Dragon the deck would have lost absolutely nothing in terms of viability or a win condition and would have gained some better first turn plays and a kill condition.

That said, Cyber Dragon doesn't belong in every deck, but most every deck around uses them anyway.

Hey, Belgian Blue, could you take a look at the deck in my sig? I'm trying to work up something original and I keep getting lame responses.

The problem is that sooo many people (from this board and others), say the typical (even idealistic), statement: there are several decks that don't have any use for it, or there is something better than it. They then leave it at that, with no examples, no nothing, to back it up :disappoin

Anything that swarms on its own strength. That'll give a you a few to look at to begin. The difficulty with what you ask is that the person making this statement has to have a deck like that in his arsenal at the current time to be able to list it. That's rarely the case.