Yeah, I've been thinking about the best way to describe Level Up! and Level Modulation's effects.

How about:

The rules for special summoning from your hand are pretty slack. If an effect allows you to special summon, then go nuts.

The rules for summoning from the graveyard are strict in comparision. If the monster has a special summoning requirment (only-special summon or cannot except-special summon), then it has to be summoned that way before you can summon it from the graveyard. Even if Level Modulation allows you to break the summoning requirments, you still have to obey that one rule.

How about that?

masterwoo0, i was referring to the bolded part of your statement. ultimate insect lv7 does not need to be summoned in that way to be "properly summoned" it has no special summon requirements, nor is it nomi, it can be summoned in any fashion at all and still be considered properly summoned.

But, you forget that even though it doesnt have a Nomi feel, it still has a "properly summoned" effect, so all LV Monsters generally must be properly summoned if not for one reason, for another.

A Level Up!'d Insect LV7 is basically a Vanilla Monster, and the only reason to return it with Level Modulation would be if you actually wanted to give your opponent 2 cards, just to summon a monster that can't attack and won't have an effect even after the turn is over.

no it doesn't have a properly summoned effect. it has an extra bonus for being summoned in a specific way, but no "properly summoned" method, since it cannot be improperly summoned.

its just like d-hero dreadmaster, and clock tower prison. in no way is summoning him via the clocktower properly summoning him, its just an extra method that has a bonus. or summoning voltanis with its effect, or summoning phoenix from the grave with its effect. they're just an extra bonus for summoning them in a specific way. it doesn't mean that its "properly summoned"

monsters that can be "properly summoned" indicates that if they are summoned in some other way they cannot be revived from the graveyard, which isn't the case with ultimate insect lv7.

Sure, you may call it a Bonus, but why would you waste a Level Up! to summon a 2600 ATK Monster with no effect? The only good think about doing it is the fact that it IS 2600 ATK. Other than that, it is not going to get you a 2600 ATK Monster that can reduce your opponents ATK/DEF unless you properly summon LV7 by LV5's effect.

So, how is that not a Properly Summoned LV7? There is no other way to get his effect if you dont summon him that way. I wouldnt call that a "bonus".

but having its effect doesn't mean its properly summoned. properly summoned is a term with a specific meaning. which refers to a method of summon required to be able to revive it from the graveyard.

sure you should use lv5's effect and useing level up would be a waste, but that has nothing to do with being properly summoned. the ultimate insect line doesn't even have any special summon/nomi monsters in it. so the term has no bearing on them.

Its a little half baked, but I think I came up with a use for Allure Queen LV7 that doesn't have its effect.

Diffusion Wave Motion!

Heh...you'd probably be better off using a Beatdown Deck with DNA Surgery or something with it, lol.

So far, Metamorphosis has been a top choice with it being Level 7.

It will always have a meaning regardless

Example

Player A Summons Ultimate Insect LV5 and uses Level Up! to summon Ultimate Insect LV7 from his Deck and announces that Player B's Monsters

Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8
Cyber Dragon
Don Zaloog

Are all reduced by 700 ATK/DEF

Player B states that Ultimate Insect LV7 was not "Properly Summoned" by the effect of Ulitmate Insect LV5, so Ultimate Insect LV7 does not get his effect. Player A states that LV7 was summoned by LV5 and calls a Judge to the Table.

After seeing Ultimate Insect LV7 on the field, and Ultimate Insect LV5 in the Graveyard, the Judge ask as a first question to Player A, "Was Ultimate Insect LV7 summoned by sending Ultimate Insect LV5 to the Graveyard during your Standby Phase?" To which Player A responds that he used Level Up! during his Main Phase 1, to summon LV7.

The responding Judge states that Ultimate Insect LV7 was not "Properly Summoned" by LV5's effect and therefore will not reduce any monsters ATK/DEF. It has nothing to do with whether LV7 is a Nomi Monster or not. If he is not properly summoned, he will not get his effect, but in terms of being reborn from the Graveyard, he is unaffected by the fact that he was not Summoned by LV5, since it is only a requirement to get his effect, and not to initially bring him to the field, as he can be Tribute Summoned, rather than only being Special Summoned.

lol This thread is getting kinda out of hand. I had my question answered, but I have another.

So, if my friend discards Horus LV8 with Lightning Vortex's discard cost, and he Monster Reborns Horus LV8, can he still negate my spell cards?

You said the thread is out of hand, yet had you even bothered to read the "out of hand" post, you wouldn't have this question....

except that the term "properly summoned" should not be anywhere in that example. how can it be "improperly summoned" by the effect of Ultimate Insect LV5? its either summoned by that effect or its not.

plus your example actually illustrates my original point. you originally said that the higher level LV monsters must be properly summoned in order for level modulation to work on them. and now from your most recent post you state that Ultimate Insect LV7 is only properly summoned by the effect of LV5. which would mean that you cannot level modulation it from the graveyard if tribute summoned or summoned with level up.

and like i said, "properly summoned" ALWAYS refers to a required method that must have been met in order for it to be allowed to be revived from the graveyard. it implies that the monster can be "improperly summoned" and could therefore not be revived from the graveyard. there is no way to improperly summon Ultimate insect LV7, just as there is no way to improperly summon d-hero dreadmaster and no way to improperly summon a normal monster.

infact none of those monsters even have to be summoned in order to revive them from the graveyard.

I never said such a thing. That's what I keep trying to tell you. I said each Uppermost LV Monster must be summoned by its "card text" in order to be properly summoned.

Using Level Up! to get a Uppermost LV Monster will either make the monster ineligible for its effect, or, make it ineligible for Level Modulation.

BUT, that wasnt the point I was trying to mention, and I wasn't even talking about Level Modulation for use in reborning. I ONLY mentioned it to say that it is similar to Level Up!, in that it mentions that it "ignores the summoning requirement". That's all. That's why I told Halfdemon when he said that it was off-topic, that I posted because my intent obviously was not made clear, and I can see that it still isnt.