Wonderbread is at least half right. Don't change charge vs vehicles unless tankdrop is dropped. Even your +2 modifier would make maxims tough to hit. You can kiss your mech good buy if you miss.

The only tweaks I would make to charge at the moment are:

Punchback - Mechs take no damage on a failed charge. If they hit a vehicle they take 1 damage. If they hit a mech they take damage equal to the target mech's primary or melee damage, which ever is higher. Charging full strength mechs would be dangerous. Even the HL Longbow could be useful with a rule like this.

OR

Heavy and Hard armor - Make these two work against charge. This would mainly help mechs and not the typical charge targets.

I would luv to see a game where charge did not out range LRMs. MWDA is not that game. Limiting charge to 1x move would be a disaster for mechs. Poll results certainly showed a dissatisfaction with charging. I don't think any of the solutions posted had a clear edge.

The more I play move and shoot games, the more I like 'em. More units are playable. More SE gets used. Terrain matters. Artillery does not work as well against more mobile targets. PLUS, MECHS GET A VIABLE ATTACK OPTION OTHER THAN CHARGE.

Hmm... yeah, that'd be interesting...

Make it so that Mechs can move standard movement without heat, and then fire. That'd be cool with me (no pun intended) Also allow a Mech to walk and then Vent. But not be able to do the same action in the same turn. - This is by far my favorite single solution. :)

or

Make it so that there's a +2 defense against a Mech when you charge, but no modifier against vehicles? Afterall, a Mech is considerably more agile (generally speaking, there are exceptions) than a vehicle, and at least a Mech can take the impact and recoil by taking a step back, a vehicle can't...

or

Maybe make it so that Mechs take less damage from a charge?

or

Any combination of the three?

LOL. Cute.

I would have to agree with the title of the thread. Look at the poll on MWRealms in regards to this. Normally if a poll has a fairly good bell-curve look to it then you are probably hitting the solution on the head (or you are at least on the right track). But the results of this poll are dispersed and all over the place. It's not even across the board but there's hardly a majority in favor of any one solution. This is a good hint/indicator that there probably isn't a single change to the charge mechanic that would really result in a well-balanced fix. Currently there are just simply far too many positives and far too negatives for just one change to bring it back in to balance. From looking at the poll if you could only do a single change then the majority (by only a tiny margin) would pick the 1x movement. But I would have to agree that this alone would not fix it.

I don't know if this has been said, i think it will, no mech right now moves 14 (i think i may be wrong one of those stupid locusts might) so my fatties could then shoot them BEFORE they charge, as they line up for it

I'd like to point out that VERY FEW people are noticing the fact that we're going to have orders problems with this particular proposed change. Kudos to Shuriken for noticing :)

I've been gaming for over 25 years, all types. In addition, playtesting for 20+ of those; wargames, miniatures, RPG's, PC games. I've been around the block a time or 2.

And IMO, the worst of the proposed rules is the 1 order / 150 points.

I LIKE the higher point total game [450 - we could make that 400 or 500].

WK, let's boost it to a 500 pt / 5 order game. Then we can fix the charge problem. And ranged combat. And basing vehicles. And *SMACK* :confused:

1x move would kill charging. Most mechs could not do it. If they could get into range then they would be based. Mechs that can't charge are basically defenseless. No one would play mechs in a competative game. Thus, no more charging. PROBLEM SOLVED.

The 22% who voted for this just did not think it thru. In a game where all the rest of the units have a move and shoot capability with a range on par with charge, why would anyone want to take this away from mechs??

mlotoole0. You can't do any changes to charge without needing to change other things (i.e. namely tank-drop) at the same time or soon thereafter. However ... we are focusing specifically on the Charge issue at the moment. Basically what changes would make that mechanic balanced. Once we get that right THEN we can focus on anything else that is throwing things out of whack.

We have to do the changes a piece at a time ... we can't possibly try to do all the changes at once or else we'd never be able to get anything done. Can you swallow a turkey whole? No. But you can sure pack it down if you take it one bite at a time. :)

Your opponent isn't always going to have a mech or vehicle with a 14" range so saying that you could never charge anymore is incorrect. This change would also make terrain use/placement important as you COULD do a charge from behind it (unless they also implemented the front arc & LOS idea) and thus make terrain much more important to overall gameplay ... whereas right now it means next to nothing.

I'm not going to claim I know the ultimate solution to charge. I've made a number of suggestions and I will be playtesting them as time goes on. But charge simply cannot stand as it does currently as it is ruining the game IMHO. It's awfully hard to bring new people in to a 'future modern-warfare' game and the people see the mechs charging from well outside of anythings weapons range. They see that, they scoff, they leave. It simply is not healthy for the longetivity of the game.

We need:

Step 1 - Tone done charging
Step 2 - Subsequently have to tone down tank-drop
Step 3 - Counterassault comes out and the new AA units will severely limit the usefulness of VTOLs

Suddenly EVERYBODY'S ability to move and shoot is toned down (note ... NOT taken away) and your WEAPONS and SHOOTING finally will mean something again. Yes if your opponent has a lot of units with very long range and you do not then you will be at a disadvantage. How is that any different though than your mechs movement range being greater/less than your opponents (and thus whether or not you are in charge range of each other??). People will have to start using base and break tactics like in the days of old. You can either use infantry which won't last as long cause of the new breakaway rules (but infantry have FAR too many clicks of life in the first place so that just means they will last about as long as they should now) ... or we could actually see people start using scout vehicles since they don't take break damage.

Do step 2 first. And not just tankdrop. Those SS autocannons are just as bad. I would be all for the 1x move if I knew xxxdrop was not an issue. But it is a major issue.

Tankdrop was intoduced to the game on purpose. The game designers seem to love it. It brought the badly designed heavy tanks back into use plus added to the tempo of gameplay. Getting this one changed may be more difficult than everything else.

Face the fact. If you go to a 1x charge, mechs will disappear until at least until #2. Where it goes from there it is hard to say. This will hurt the game much more than bumper bots.

Ok ... granted mlotoole0. That might be a better order in which to do things.

I wasn't serious, cesar is indeed a pile.

lol, good - because I don't have him, LOL

This is how I feel too.

VTOL's should be the only effective move/shoot units allowed IMO. Charge and (possibly) tank drop can still be used, but should have more restrictions built into them.

If a VTOL gets the first shot on you, so be it. That should be their advantage. Similar to artillery. At least you don't see them doing 4 and 5 damage.

Ok..here is what I want to say..and WK..if your reading..I'll type it up all perdy so all you have to do is copy, paste and gimme a thank you email.



Mechwarrior Darkage, Liao Incursion
Frequently Asked Question Update

Add these rules to the rule book already in current circulation.

1. Mechs making a Charge action must complete the action as follows:

A) Owner of the Charging mech declares a Charge Action, the charging figure cannot be in base contact with any opposing unit. The Target figure cannot be in base contact with a friendly unit. The target unit cannot be an unit on a Infantry base.
B) Measure printed movement plus half of printed movement. The line of movement may not bend and may not pass through any terrain.
C) Resolve attack. If the charge is successful, target unit receives chargers primary damage plus one. This is not reduced by defensive special equipment. The charger takes 1 click of heat for the run, as well as one click of heat for the charge. Charger also takes one click of damage. If the attack fails, neither figure receives damage. Rotate the Target unit 180 degrees. If the units base does not fit, rotate it 90 degrees in either direction. If the base still does not fit, leave target figure in original facing. After rotation of figure, place charger with rear arc in front arc of target figure.

2. Vehicles exiting a transport may NOT be given a fireing action. Units exiting may still move. Units exiting may still fire if they are Infantry with speed mode foot.

3. A unit with AA in it's name may make two kinds of special attacks as follows:
A) TRACER FIRE: AA unit may fire double it's range if target unit has speed mode VTOL. Add two to the targets defence. Resolve attack as normal.
B) PINPOINT FIRE: AA unit may double it's range if target unit has speed mode VTOL. Resolve attack. If attack is successful, deal damage equal to printed damage minus two to a minimum of 1.

4. Mercenary units may be members of movement formations ONLY. Ontop of that, they may only participate with units from thier own mercenary unit, as clearly specified on the figure. Full list of Mercenary unit affiliations can be found here:_______.


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So whatcha think?