I dont think that Katsu has 11 with IT. And if I remember correctly, he cant survive a charge. He's made to make them, not survivie them.

The perfect mech is the SW Crimson Hawk. The single use agility combined with your one click of damage puts it right at his sweet spot. Then, you use your secondary for 3 clicks and Arnis is a piece of junk stuck to 139 points! Other than that, Fredick Bo has Arnis out classed.

Around the time counterassault comes out the new 450/3 rules will come into effect, and the standard game will become 450pts with three actions not 300pts.

Not to detract from your point at all.... In fact for the price of Katsu at 450pts you can have two mechs and a still squeeze in an effective even if small amount of support units to help.

I also find that Clyde Joyce is very effective against charging. A successful charge by any agility mech is only going to do a max of 5 damage. Leaving Clyde with a 9 attack and 4 damage. I have been very successful using Clyde against mechs like Arnis. In every game that Arnis or an agility mech has charged me, whenther the charge is successful or not, I have ended up destroying said mech. In a 450pt or 600pt game unless you are really unlucky you will destroy any mech that charges you. Properly supported, Clyde is hard to be beaten by an army built around an agility mech.

I didn't say IT but he does only have a 10 targeting. So we're both wrong. :grin:

I know that he also has brawling (which automatically makes people think "CHARGER") I've always found the he was better for shooting from building tops (well, when you can) and using that brawling for beating on anything that makes the mistake of getting too or can't run away (pushed tanks and infantry and the ocasional shut down mech). He's just to fragile with too many repair markers to just run him around into stuff.

9 to hit 22 is a 13. That's like 20%. You're very lucky considering you have less support than Arnis. I believe Joyce has a 22 defense which means Arnis only hits 35% of the time so he shouldn't be charging Joyce at all unless he's got rear arc.

There are 4 Mech counters to Charge:

Agility: There are no Agility mechs that can compete with Arnis if neither is allowed to charge so you may as well just play Arnis.

22-23 Defense: There are several good choices. Keep an infantry parked right behind your mech as much as possible so even if you need to vent the rear attack can never be a charged due to insufficient space. 23 Hardened is obviously the best, but Mech choice is a lot about your support as well.

Repairability: Tough to sucker a decent Arnis player more than once with this trick but bring a mech with few markers and maybe even 5 clicks of JJ and allow the charge then break, repair, infantry base the next turn. Now Arnis is 1 click from losing his 22 defense which will make him think twice about another charge. You have to be careful about your placement so everything can reach and you usually need an artillery advantage to keep the RV from getting shelled. It's too many 'ifs' for my tastes but it can be done.

Deep stats: Is there a single mech with a 50% chance to hit Arnis after being successfully charged--11 Attack or 10IT? If so, I bet it already is covered in the 23 defense section.

I agree with engineofdeath I would only charge if I have to. Its too risky.

when it comes out, has anyone considered the SW rifleman? oooh! <20 defense (which rises to 20)! CHARGEBAIT! hehe, yes, except... arnis charges for 5. the SW rifleman peaks at 5 clicks in with 11 attack and maxed damage :grin:. so unless they're using multiple chargers, this dude is a good choice.

A related question, if you have rapid strike and you hit with both rolls, does target with agility take one or two damage?

2 damage Klaital, Rapid strike are two separate attacks.

in fact if you hit with the first and knock it out of agility, the second hit scores full damage.

What about the merc Sun Cobra? Agility and a 0-14 eng secondary attack.

It depends on what you are using first of all. Are you using Arnis with his 10 attack? Or you using Andre Crawford, for example, with his 11 attack? I'll assume Arnis since he is the most popular chargemonkey to date. Really anything with a 22 defense or higher and/or has Agility is something you would not want to charge (the notable exception is Federick with his 3" min .. thus making him defenseless against an Agility mech).

In the 300 pt. environment Yuri was my fav pick as he had a survivable defense .. great armor which made him mostly immune to infantry ... could stand to take a couple of hits ... and was cheap enough that you could bring along support for him. In the 450 pt. games though ... I don't know what will be my new fav. Heck .. it may STILL be Yuri ... it'll allow me to just take more support.

I just want to mention some thing Joel Nugyn(sp?) is very good charge bait mainly cause both his weapons have Min range greater than 2" so evan i dont want to charfe ill just base him with an agility mech and laugh.

Yes 23 def. is the biggest thing to worry about when charging, and the RotS hell stay isnt that big of a problem if you have arty, you just bombard it and than charge it after its down a few clicks,
you can do the same with most of the HL's with 23 def to, if they get away from the tokens every turn just base them when their down on heat and go from there, ever one talks about beating chargers with a mech but they always forget about the support what if im running a 450 point df army with a charger a tank drop and a donar, and some infantry say trike squads than it makes you think alittle more now doesnt it, also lets say i make a mixed army than that adds a whole new level to it.

I'd still charge it

The best mechs without Agility against charging are high defense mechs that change little after suffering a Charge.

The Hellstar and Yuri are two of the best in that regard.