The high defence paradigm may not work so well anymore. Too many super fast mechs with a high attack.

I will pay attention to how the mech looks 5 clicks in. Is it still viable? Can I do 3 clicks back to Arnis? Somebody coined this term the Arnis Surviviabilty Factor (ASF). Also, repairability will be a factor on the flip side.

The other factor to consider now:

Can I take 4 pulse lasers from 16".

I just played a game not to long ago during the start the only thing I did for a special attack was a DFA (death from above) and it worked out real nice. But as I got farther in the game and when my oppents were crippled I charged One Eye. So I think the new rules did change the way of playing by alot cause normally I charge alot and my whole strategy was different this time though it didn't really effect me cause I took 1st WOOt

I have always been hesitant about fielding a Mech with 20 or less defense. While a 20 may be considered the "average" defense it is still a very hittable one and that is why I shy away from Mechs with that defense or lower. The method of my opponent's attack is not what worries me. What worries me about a 20 defense is that it is all too easy for my Mech to take a hit and be knocked out of the fight. Considering the point investment a Mech is, it is in my best interests to invest in a Mech that has a tougher than "average" defense.

To answer your initial charge question: "Is the change to Charge enough?" I would have to say: Not really, but it is a step in the right direction. If the change has done anything, it has made some of the junior players a bit more hesitant to charge and no one charges with a big Mech. . . at least not right away. Like TenExs pointed out, players still charge. . . particularly veteren players.

you can still use "MR.DRUMMOND" affectivley but u need to be more causious. if u charge from the opponents back ark u get a +2 attack and they dont get a free spin. that way they cant hit u next turn and u can just break away and go get repaired...

Ah, DFA. Hadn't thought of that one yet. The change will sure bring DFA into the fore, if they don't make an adjustment to it. Personally, I don't think it should be adjusted since it's hard enough as is, but the possibility of less damage and less heat make it much more desirable than it was, even if not a prefered option. I doubt it'll become a major tactic, but I can see it being used a whole lot more than before.

And now back to your regularly scheduled discussion on charge....

no,

it's a toss up,

Yes

Played a game last week and didn't see any charges, though that might have to do with the fact that I was using a high defence mech (Stef Ehli) and my opponent was using a couple of steel wolf mechs that probably aren't that good for charging.

IMO, the change of charge rules just makes the charge-prone player think a little bit more about charging. It doesn't wipe out its utility, as dealing 6 damage for 2 in return is still quite good.

That's one reason I tend to field mechs with a 22 defence or higher. The other reason is mechs with a 20 defence tend to get shot up a lot. Firing formations are fairly popular here - I had an opponent set up a firing formation that needed to roll 7 to hit Stef Ehli in hindering terrain, which hit of course.

In any case, until we see more CA units here (the shop hasn't started selling CA boosters yet), it'll be hard to see how exactly the game here in Malaysia has changed.

I still say they should've made the damage for a charging unit half it's modified primary damage rounded up. By adding the +1 damage to the charger raises the risk/reward a little and making it more questionable, thus making the player think more about charging and taking more damage to his unit. What does charge give a +2 to primary damage, if this is the case then Arnis charges for 6 damage taking 3. Bringing him down to 8 ATT, 19 Def, and 3 primary damage.

the way i see it, games are being decided earlier. people are playing mobile charge monkeys vs. 20+ defence armored monsters.

the mobility of the monkeys makes it easier for them to set up dual charge attacks in a turn. the thing is, half the time, they still miss.

the game today is, how can my 250 or so points of battleforce fight and win? because i can assume 2 things: 1) my primary threat is damaged and ineffective, 2) my opponent's primary threat is damaged and ineffective; after the 1st 15-20 minutes.

as for the 16" energy attacks, just use lots of blocking terrain. You can leverage your 14" AP or streak missiles attack against the 16" energy attack that can't target you. I've used units like antonia chinn and jack farrell effectively against the 16" energy attack of the sc marauder through judicious placement and movement around blocking terrain.

i have discoved a good use for salvaged mechs now. because then mech wont take the half because you cant half "0" soo you dont take damage and still do damage to the opponet.

~MP

Good point, M4sterPupp3t. Also, I think the change is good. It doesn't make charge super suck, it just makes the attacker have to weigh the benefits and drawbacks more. Also the higher point games make big mechs w/ 22+ def more playable. Finnaly my big HL mechs will see some use (c'mon arnis charge voeller, i want to shoot you), and Brane can finnaly take a break (go koshi go!). And besides, if you play it right, chargebait can be used as really good bait, just jump 'em with grapple infantry or mechs and overwhelm them.

I'd like to see the change go a bit farther, perhaps half of the total charge (not just primary) damage rounded up. The BR lego can still hit for 6 taking only 2 and go back for repair. Arnis isn't much better. Such a change would force chargers to really think about how badly they need to knock a target down because they will be noticably damaged after the fact. This would also give the target (even if the charge is successful) a better opportunity to do something back to them.

I guess it all depends on what charge is supposed to do. Is it supposed to be the primary attack form in the game or (IMHO) a highly risky last ditch attempt to inflict some damage.

With the new rules, i'm going to start using cheaper mechs (raider Mk II), if i plan on doing so.

The opposite applys. I think we will be seeing less assult mech now since most would take 3 or sometimes 4 clicks of damage from a single charge ATTEMPT. It is better for your 114 ICE mech to risk the charge than the mech worth more than half you build total.

As for the supposed SCARY 16" SC SunCobra, Shockwave, Thunderbolt, and Marauder, i think they are balanced for the new direction of the game because:

1)their movement is way below average(the SunCobra has a decent move, but loses it quickly)

2)Unlike their SW counterparts, their 16" weapons are all energy, so a few infantry or units with reflective armor will greatly lessen their potency.

3) Other than the Marauder, these mechs have relatively low defenses, so a charge from, lets say, a Raider Mk II, would quickly put a damper on such units.

4)These low movement values and long ranges could suggest a possible 'move and shoot' rule to even the field for the less fortunate mechs.

I agree with many here that the attacker's damage should be higher. To balance that, I'd say no damage on a miss - just heat.

Well thinking of new tweaks and all is great. But that was not the purpose of the thread. The intention here was to get feedback from folks who have played with the new rules to give their opinions on whether or not they saw significant changes to the game environment as a result. By all means if you want to suggest further changes feel free .... but try to stick to the topic at hand that the thread was opened for.