there are 2 areas you need to look at. There are some figures that are powerful onto themselves. and there are others that the rules for them are unbalanced.

right now, no one ever uses non-AP artillery. and if we got rid of that people would instead use the Liao Arrow IV with 3 damage. not a good solution. you really need to concider the effects the change will have.

I really dont see a good fix for the SSw Arrow IV unles the artillery rules themsleves are changed.

Broken arty (at one time or another): SS Arrow IV, SW Padilla, Kenneth Medchelke, SS DI Towed AA, Merc Sniper (hardly broken), etc?:
Errata each Armor Piercing artillery unit to allow AP only on direct fire, similar to Anti-Personnel/Streak. [Yes, the Liao 'green' Arrow IV gets relatively better, but enough to push it into 'abusive' category? Not with just the one pog.]

DF Schmitt/Marksman (Kanazuchi?), SH Aesir/Behemoth
Errata each unit with IT: Cannot use IT on same turn as unloading from transport. [Fluff: computer - insufficent time to acquire target]

Errata Arnis: Change to 191 pts (flip the 6). Ok, perhaps 181pts.
[Though I'm already seeing him used less due to the BR Raider MKIIs, two for 228, plus Basil and two A IVs, yum!]

VTOLS: With the Aesirs, I haven't seen any high-flying, aggressive VTOLS for weeks.

Yeah, these are rules changes, but at least they're in the semantic form of errating units :D.

I think the only arty of those listed is the SS A4. The SS DI Towed used to be broken but new arty rules have fixed it fine. If you base a SW Padilla all it can do is break away, so it isnt broken. Kenneth is pretty rare though very good its not like you can have 5 in one army. Merc snipers good range, but not spectacular damage. Arnis is used so much that most people know how to counter him, though he is spectacular for the point cost.

it's the multipog nature of the SSA4 in conjunction with the Ap, that makes it so deadly, four pogs a turn from the two groups of two arrow fours that are constantly getting cylcled in and out of transports, gurantuees you're taking damage you can't do much to avoid, Mr ultra arty may decide to switch to liao arrow 4 tanks but they only have one pog, the order / game initiative changes it means the liao arrow 4 player has to pay more attention to where he is pogging and when. you spend 3 or four orders (if your lucky) to do a possible 2 to 6 damage a turn to two units and I have to choose to let you damage them because I've got 1 or two more orders than you've got pogs. I'll still play fast units with heavy armour because if I face that army the 4 damage I may recieve could be bad but the greater freedom would be worth it, and against the multi pog and no longer Ap armies it's no more than 1 or 2 damage depending on the sort of unit, potentially no differant but where you have to choose someone to take damage, (the sort of situation where SC increadibly steady sats excell.)

LEAVE ARNIS ALONE, gee, having one interesting usable mech which counteracts tank drop seems to be too much for some people, and there are Liao mechs that charge just as far for more damage...

Sorry, back to the subject.

TAKE THE SS ARROW IV artillery tank and make the armor piercing on the first click only; although I'd settle for them being all single use armor piercing, or just the first 2 clicks or being for armor piercing. With only 2 clicks for armor piercing one SS arrow iv could knock the AP off two enemy SS arrow iv's- so players might be less tempted to bring two.

Main point, ANY change would be for the better. Kinnison, I appreciate your work as playtester on the non-stacking pogs. I think that it was the best solution to the problem, until the SS arrow iv came out. Hopefully your influence will be felt at headquarters yet again (although I still think it would be more fun to have units with ECM be immune to artillery attacks not having direct LOS.)

nothing is broken, just make better armies. If your collection is too small, barrow from a friend. Yes 4 SS Arrow 4's are deadly, just use liao awe advantage, or go with fast units that have ballistic for indirrect attacks, or Lots and Lots of mechs, or VTOL's and command. Just my opinion

personaly, i thin that a very simple errata is in order. pure and simple.

Errata: An artillery attack may not make use of -any- SE.

this includes streaks, AnP, and AP. period. we would then only be dealing with the liao Arrow Iv tank. big deal. one pog, 3 cliks. not a big deal. as noted in the previous post, it would be down to a matter of orders vs pogs. and the orders would be winning. with at most two pogs a turn to throw around..thats not going to leave much dancing room for the arty player. especialy if the player he's fighting against keeps making his command rolls. 3/4 orders Vs two pogs? it's easily doable to beat that. but when your facing 4-6 pogs vs. 3/4 orders..thats when things spiral out of control...

o k here's my fixes

ss arrow IV: armor peirsing SU and target number is now 21

tank/infantry drop : any unit that is disembarked off of a transport recieves an order toke but may still be given an order this turn

arnis : evade is SU

df balac : evade is SU it's a df unit its sapost to have a bad defence remember


oh has Gebus saved your solul

i only read the first page and it sound like your all sad cause you dont have ss arrows (i have 2 and got them off a newb yay fun for all)

awe only takes effect rarely. The best way, on the other hand to deal with an ss arty pieeces is to run two giggans along the side of the board (out of arc) and to unload mortar tams with which to poke the artillary.

I am not particularly sad cause I don't have an ss piece. I don't like and don't use artlilarry.

whew that was way off topic.

Wizkids has been doing a good job fixing the game. Charge is strong but not too strong. Mechs are now as strong on the field as they should be considering this is MW... and arty tokens don't stack...


While I do believe that this is possible, It will make players build very particular armies in a H2H. That may not be a problem. One unit which is still too strong is Kenneth....I know it is a BR unit and should not have any repair markers but a simple fix would be to give it a repair marker after the first click since its damage drops from two to one.

Limit transports to carrying Infantary with foot movement only, towed units may be moved with any wheeled or tracked vehicle with reduced speed.

To keep things absolutely simple I concur with all who thought of this before and after me - "broken" unit is the one which performs extremely well for it's point cost. So errata the unit:

1) I'll stay out of which units need errata. :rolleyes:

2) Adjust the point cost to reflect the unit's "real" value.

3) By paying more for what you get out of the unit and by affording less support, "cheesy" armies will get weaker and easier to outplay.

And this errata is simple - no need for complicated rule changes or memorizing what one unit can and other can't.

@ CodeMaster

HERE HERE!

An excellent idea you've got there. Keeps things much simpler. Although ANY errata is bound to be disappointing at some level (especially for new players just getting the pieces out of the box), I think it would be much easier to live with "Yes, this unit can do everything on its dial it just costs B instead of A." rather than "No, this unit doesn't have that SE anymore, and this one over here has been changed from X to Y, oh and that one over there... its now single use." What a night mare for Battlemasters and players alike.

So here's to errata of point costs only!

my .02



[edit to correct spelling]

You can't change the point cost of units, since there's some odd formula that wizkids uses to get their point costs and that would throw the game off. Also if you change the stats the point cost would change.

My solution using your theories:

Lets make arnis have one click of life with zero damage! Poof! no more arnis! SS arrow 4? Armor piercing is WAY too powerful, so let's just scrap this unit.. one damage is good... target's too easy to hit... 22 target? Oh yay we just made a new thumper, and now we have the LIAO Arrow 4 who just became useful.. so... uh.. how about it does 2 damage with a 23 target? Yeesh, the units are not the problem, it's the rules..

Care to explain how that was on-topic?


Didn't think so.