Indeed. They've got their Sci-Fi game (MW:DA), they've got their Fantasy game (MK), and their Super-Hero game (HC). That *REALLY* is all they need. I mean, WHAT OTHER KINDS OF NERDS ARE THERE? I've never seen a guy get his life taken over with the thought of flying, trying to 'scare' people, or fighting people with an action figure. Well, maybe the action figure one, but there are so few it doesn't matter.

Wizkids is a business. Businesses need to make money and they need to make more money than they did the year before. How do they do that? They do that by exploring new opportunities. Some work and some don't but they are part of a publically held company and they have to show a profit to stockholders. Sticking to MK, MW, and HC is not the answer. THe community has said that the releases were coming to fast and people couldn't purchase as much as they wanted. Wizkids toned down their release schedule. However they still need to make money. So where does that money come from? Answer, other game ideas. Sure CS, CF, and SR didn't perform as expected, but Sportsclix seems to be doing well. CSG are an attempt to widen the possibilities of the market. A company like this has to do two things support their core business and innovate. If you leave out one the other will fail.

Focusing on MW? You coulda' fooled me. I think they're neglecting MW in favor of developing other products.

For example, I'd rather see the company devote money to serious playtesting and writing of a MW v2.0 ruleset, and product expansion to include 3d terrain, but instead we got Pirates. But that's just what I think.

I like the pirates game looks, but yes it is smarter to fix problems before you create more.

They could make a WWE game! Make the figures the same size as the Shadowrun figures... I bet a lot of wrestling fans would buy the action figures and prolly even play the game if it turns out to be decent!

I'm still hoping for a freakin' Star Wars based space battles minis game... WotC is making a D&D minis type line for Star Wars but I don't think they'll be able to do a good job of making it into a space battles game...

I think a CSG for Star Wars space battles would work out well though! Lots better than a LOTR game would...

He ment they are focusing on killing their big three:rolleyes:

A CSG of Star Wars or even Star Trek would probably sell really well. I'd by it if I could have my fleet of rebel fighters could take on the Death Star in a 20-30 minute game or my Enterprise taking on a trio of Klingon Birds of Prey on a Koybashi Maru scenario.

Yes... I might even buy into a Star Trek game. DS9 mebee? The Dominion Wars?

I still wonder what that old idea of a WWII clix game would be like. So long as it had a radically different game system from that of Mage Knight/MechWarrior, it might turn out pretty well.

The only problems I might see developing from it would be WK's insistence on trying to cater to a pre-adolescent audience, or at least social stereotypes of a pre-adolescent audience, and a hesitance to letting children play as Nazi forces. Depending on how they insitute it, I could also forsee veterans' groups decrying the game as being insensitive to or disrespectful of the legacy of the War, but I bet it would certainly sell well, as long as they made some decent game mechanics that didn't rely on the ridiculousness of "pushing."

Ok ya bums!

This is a business lesson.

WK is an LLC.. LLC means no shareholders. LLC (limited Liability Corporations) are a fairly new type of corporate structure/entity. (go see the ducumentary "the corporation" if its in your area.. a real eye opener).
Wizkids LLC is owned by Topp's.. This could simply mean the Topps owns 51% of the company. The other owner od WK LLC are on file in Washington state.. If you really want to find out who, file a request with the country records dept of the county up in washington they are in. (*there may be a small fee involved)

that the business lesson..

Now, about those product lines....
There are curently the following active product lines.
MWDA, Hero clix, and Mage knight. Sports clix are dying on the vine.. I suspect because of inadaquate promotion of the product. I suspect WK didn't aim its distribution at the right market.. (I'd have aimed it at the same shops that buy Topps trading cards.., and sport equipment stores... but what do I know) Crison SKies (IMHO) did not get developed or promoted as well as it should have or could have. Creepy freaks is great but would have been better about 10 years ago and is badly placed in the market . It's not a good product for a game store though for a toy store, It should do better. Again, not well marketted. Pirates of the Spanish main has the "potential" of being the next Yu-Gi-Oh!/Dual Master/whst ever... as long as it is effectivly supported.. game play is sweet, fast and not overly fancy.. hopefully Wiz Kids wont narf it (better not.. I just ordered two cases for my store.. I'm going to be very dissapointed if they blow it on the marketting end!)

The number one problem with any "collectable" game right now is the market is flooded with collectable type games.. They come, they go.. and they do it fast. There is allready both a star trek, and star wars CCG, and there is allready far to many LOTR based games out there, and they are all compeating against each other for a limited market. Every new game type that comes out has to struggle for a limited piece of the pie.

As a game store owner I have do a major balancing act as to how much of a product I'm going to order. If it looks good, and I belive my customer base is interested in the product I'll generally go into it substancially (ie, 2 cases of POTSM with 4 cases reserved with my supplier). MK, and MWDA are a fairly safe bet because of an established fan base, and strong promotional support from the manufacturer (I usually have to beat some of my customers off with a stick so they dont paw through the cases when they get into the store before I get them up on the shelf.. yes, I have had custoers out side of my stores doors before openoing looking for that distinctive WK logo coming off the UPS truck .. they will follow the delivery driver right into the store..It's gotten a touch intense from time to time!)

Wiz Kids has awesome vendor support with thier sanctioned tournaments, and and no other manufacturer offers near the level of support in my expierience.

One other comment of note in this thread makes mention of the apparent target of the Wiz Kids product line (ie Youth, pre teen, early teens) yet I notice that the players that go to nationals are as a rule not part of the little kids group. They are people with jobs. If there is a product line aimed at the kids then it to be the new POTSM line. Booster packs are inexpensive (in line with MTG boosters) wich puts them in reach of your average adolecent with $5 burning a hole in his/her pocket.

Wiz Kids may have a few holes as far as QA, and product testing goes, but for the most part they are on top of it. I still wish they would FAQ units point values instead of playing with the game rules and mechanaics. It would be easier for the players, easier for the Judge/Warlord/Battlemasters/Envoys, and as a store owner/Venue I would not have to listed to near as much carping as apposed to the sweet sound (for me anyway) of money dropping into the cash register in front of my store clerks!

Most Cordially
Terrance L. Roff

I do have to ask whether anyone knows if Topps is a publicly shared company or not and what that means regarding pressure from the top coming down on WK.

Topps is publically traded. Naturally I have no idea what that means about pressure from the top on WK. However, the low selling lines (Crimson Skies, Shadow Run) got axed after the Topps takeover. I have no idea if the takeover was actually a factor in that decision, but it might have been due to pressure from above.

An LLC is a cross between the traditional partnership and the corporation. How Wizkids is set up is a matter a speculation. However, I'd imagine the Topps has a controlling interest in Wizkids but have retained people like Jordan to make the day to day decisions. Wizkids doesn't directly answer to shareholders but they do have to answer to Topps, who as a publically traded company, have to answer to share holders. Topps needs to show a profit in order for the value of their stock to go up. If part of the company is not doing well they can do a number of things. Usually the first thing is to try to get things going in a positive direction so that no part of the company is dragging the rest down. I'm sure there was a conversation something like this:

Topps guy "Hey Wizkids why aren't you guys making as much money as when we bought you?"
Wizkids guy " Well CS, CF and SR aren't doing as well as we thought."
Topps guy " Can it recover?"
Wikzids guy " We don't think so, response hasn't been good."
Topps guy " Maybe you guys should get rid of it and work on something else"
Wizkids guy " We were thinking the same thing, have you seen what they can do with plastic cards?"

If Wizkids still doesn't show some profit they may be up for sale or cut backs in jobs etc etc. Selling a company is normally the last straw as Topps has probably assummed a lot of debt from the purchase and they don't want to take a hit.

You'll here different things from different parts of the country regarding how well they are doing. While it may seem to be dying off in Northern California, the insane lines around the booth at Wizkids for a Galactus would seem to indicate otherwise. THe best way to see how well a company is doing is to read the reports the compaany puts out for its shareholders. Topps does it and they ususally detail where the problems are.

I would like to point out that Creepy Freaks sold really well, but it couldn't get over the insane production cost for putting the DVD in every starter pack.

If this had been a standard clix game without that cartoon element, it would be considered a strong seller and still be supported. I think the cartoon element was necessary, however.

I'd have liked to have seen a cartoon tie in on, say, cartoon network, that would probably have rocketed sales.

Crimson skies had a relatively narrow fan base to start with, was an experiment in giving customers exactly the units they wants (as opposed to random boosters) and was a slightly wonky system from the get go.

Several lessons learned (worth the cost of production, probably): faction pure boosters don't make money! Less desirable stock goes unsold. A seemingly profitable license doesn't automatically guarantee sales.

I wish they'd learned those lessons before Shadow Run Duels came out. Becuase that had the same problems as CS, but also had significantly higher production costs, AND the figs were impossible to use as minis for your regular Shadowrun RPG campaign. They looked REALLY cool, but you can buy 'em at a discount these days!

Back to the core lines: MK- rehauled and doing well, new players joining, losing some older players. Probably about even.
Hero Clix: solid fan base from comics, kids love it, easy to play, lots of fun. Doing well. Marvel Ultimates will kick butt as they tie into the ultra popular Ultimates titles.
MWDA: despite the doom and gloom still popular. FP may be one of their best sellers yet. Rumors of more goodies to come should also boost sales. Rules problems are, for day to day players, relatively minor. It's hard core rules lawyering and ultra-competitve players that need true changes. Player base fluctuates, but I've seen a lot of new folks on here, and most of the older folks I recall at least coming back for a looksee.
SportsClix: give it some time, and the new marketing manager. This stil has potetnial to be huge for WK. Baseball is growing in popularity again, so we'll see.
Pirates: OK, this is fun, fast and cheap. Learned from the lessons of CS and SRD. Even if it is only a mild success it'll generate cash for WK and make Topps happy!

I see things being pretty sunny for WK, and I'm glad they're trying to make changes gradually rather than wholesale.

With the right setting, and fun little ruleset the CSG has the possibility to open new doors, too.

Later!

I actually wouldn't mind them bringing back Crimson Skies as a CSG. However, I think Wizkids needs another big name license. They were smart to pull out of the LotR game. Timing for that has come and gone. I'd be chasing down that Star Wars license. The next movie comes out next year. Plenty of time to develop a large scale fleet battle type game. Star Trek would also do well in this type of battle. I'd also look at something like GI Joe or Transformers for the CSG game line. They've already started developing a large scale battle game (LotR) it shouldn't be that hard to change things from elves and dwarves to Joes and Cobra agents or Autobots and Decepticons. Additionally there's a lot of tie in opportunities. Package a LE card in with the comic books or in the toys, that type of thing, to get the product out there in front of players.
The other thing is they need to step up the customer service. This seems to be the biggest hit against them. Gamers want to feel that the company they are supporting is listening.