Yasha, do you actually know the armor values on many of the heavy tanks? They're flippin' insane in CBT. The main weakness of vehicles in CBT is that they are prone to critical hits through any standard damage. In Dark Age, they obviously have shorter dials than mechs, dispite having higher defensive values. They also have rather high offensive values... well, guess what, those heavy tanks also have some BIG-### FIREPOWER (Alacorn, anyone? 3 gauss rifles, thats 3ML less than what a Thunder Hawk is armed with)

Personally, I think they do have the unit stats rather down to the characteristics (aside from VOTLs and on-board artillery... though I like how they changed it... VTOLs are another story...) considering you wonder why you get smacked by infantry and how they're so powerful... well lets see, my formation of FIVE SQUADS OF GNOMES ... SHOULD be able to smack a helluva lot of stuff. Thats FIVE SQUADS of Gnome Battle Armor. Each one of them can take a gauss rifle and keep kicking, a point of them have the firepower and armor to stand off with medium mechs. Anyone who would actually have legitimate claim to be able to say "why the hell does a mech have 16-18 defense and a tank have 20" should know how frail a wasp is before speaking. The very same mech has a longer dial that drops at a slower rate, can move faster, can make close combat attacks, can damage infantry on a break, can make more than 2 moves every 3 turns and generally better suited for multiple roles.
it's not all about yours and your opponent's offense and defense values on the first click.



Anyway, I'm glad at least ltrain has his head screwed on correctly.

Set retirement is nothign more then an excuse for wizkids not to fix broken rules and sell more boosters.

I am not pre-ordering any for my store. Special orders only.

@#$% I'm so pissed off at people that don't want to be pessimistic but gladly step forth and do so.

Everyone I've talked to seems reasonably excited about Falcon's Prey. I know the Highlander players certainly are.

You'll note that we havent really had all that many mechs previewed so far. The ones we've seen with the really low defenses that are not Jade Falcons (whose paradigm seems to involve low defenses in exchange for powerhouse offensive capability) are still few enough to write off as the lemons of the set (although dont get me started on if lemons in a set are really necessary). There is also the fact that there are so many high defense units equipped with point defense in this set that it might be possible to circumvent some of the low defense problems. It really all depends on the specific stats of the units involved, which most people dont have at this point.

Set retirement is a different issue so I'm not going to muddy the waters of this conversation with it.

Trying to blame people who arent buying product for killing the game is laughable. As much as we love this game universe, we are customers. In our society the groups that provide goods or services are expected to ensure that those goods or services are worth purchasing. If they are not, and if the company providing those goods or services goes out of business, that is not the customer's fault

Most of the people I've talked to feel that the game is currently as healthy as it has ever been. Sure, there are still problems that they are (presumably) working on, but compared to some of the lameness that has already been experienced... well, I'd say the future looks pretty hopeful. We'll see how things look after the full stats for FP are out.

I didn't want to piss anyone off or start a rant fest. Just wanted some additional input. I know that Toledo, OH is far from the center of the universe.

MWDA is certainly an imperfect game. But its my favorite imperfect game. I'll ride down to the bloody end.

I just wondered if other people have noticed the lack of excitement permeating the game. The only time I have seen anything close is just after the Liao expansion. Artillery was crushing everything in its path. Games were getting boring. Then Faction Wars stirred the pot so to speak.

Could another event like FW save us? Do we need saved? My pastor thinks so.

Everyone gets hyped for the release of a new set, whether they like to admit it or not. A guy at my venue was really excited for LI, and he was let down. Same with me. And then came CA....which I don't even wanna talk about.

I heard my BM the other day say it to someone and it was perfectly said......"They just took so long to fix it and do something about it." Right now they're practically digging themselves from the center of the earth. And to some up the general thought "It's just easier to start over than to try and fix things." Not everyone has the money to buy a whole new game. And couple this with the fact that Wizkids is targeting the younger kids with not as much money.....good luck Wizkids. Face it, they screwed the game up and screwed most of us over to.

Well, as for me ...

I'm excited about Falcon's Prey, as well as any future set that Kelly brings forth. :)

I'm not buying a case of it (as I usually don't get cases), but I'm working on attending as many sealed and draft events as possible. :)

Regardless, another Faction War would never hurt :cool:


btw... I've never quite understood how Wizkids is purposely targetting younger audiences? When we've got Ritter over here collecting the index fingers of people he has killed, and puffy pink nipples randomly popping up in Flight of the Falcon... :confused:

I am sorry Prydefalcn if not all of us are "educated" in the ways of CBT. Also I was under the impression we were playing MWDA not CBT.

Sorry but expensive mechs pay alot for their starting attack and defense values which decay quickly compared to the cost. Those 5 squads of gnome BA are points better spent then dumping them all in a mech. So why use the more expensive mechs when its more of a hinderance?

Personally at the venue I play it we have an enjoyable atmosphere even with our Artillery, VTOL's, Tank drops and Infantry drops. It is competetive but not nationals competetive so as it stands I think the game is fine.

All I ask for is units that are "useable" and won't get victimized by that infantry piece that costs 1/5 the price but can knock it out of its initial attack/defense value.

they are useable. Maybe I forgot to mention those 5 squads of gnomes at 95 pts, and all a mech has to do is base one of them. They have 6 attack and do 2 damage. ;-P

All they're effective for in my book is marching down the field and worrying an assault mech. People tend to stand and shoot with their assault mechs. Little do they realize that I enjoy pushing my units to death, and if they actually moved to close or distance from the infantry all the better for them.

Sometimes it really good tactics, and not good units. I hardly think Skullcap Garrett is broken, but he works very well with the gnomes. Alone, the gnomes or skullcap would get slaughtered ^^


and the gnomes hit for 2 damage every 2-3 turns. I can't hit anything important without formation firing.

So really, it isn't about the gnomes in the end :p


And if you wish to bring starting attack/defense values in to the equation right now, then... why are people complaining about the new SC WHMIIC with 9 attack for 5 clicks? Or the Shrike that gets IT when it's attack actually drops?

In fact, why not just come out and say you want mechs to be able to beat everything.

How old is Mechwarrior? NOT old. Certainly not old enough to have changed its fan base. That usually takes 5 years. This cycle has been FAR quicker with this game. I worry for its future too because I want it to survive.

In our area, we had 5 venues. I'd say it's likely no more than 1 or 2 of those will stock Falcons Prey.

I won't stop supporting the game. I suspect WK will stop supporting it before me. What worries me is that may be sooner than I'd like.

Read what Mr Stackpole says on his website. This may be Mr Weissman's baby but it HAS to make money!!

"and the gnomes hit for 2 damage every 2-3 turns. I can't hit anything important without formation firing."

Wrong, and this is what has some people legitimately worried
about the direction of the new set!

20pt Gnomes (or any other 6 or 7 attack infantry or ramming vehicle) CAN hit 16 or 18 starting defense 50% of the time or
greater, without a formation. Not to mention being charged
from 24-28" out by something that will hit something like 80%
of the time.


"Anyone who would actually have legitimate claim to be able to say "why the hell does a mech have 16-18 defense and a tank have 20" should know how frail a wasp is before speaking."

I don't know if I meet your haughty requirements for being able to
speak but I do know CBT, and yes, Wasps and other light mechs were/are unable to take much damage HOWEVER they are difficult
to hit due to their speed. In MWDA light mechs are easy to hit
AND cannot take any damage (short dials) making them near
useless. You can't outmanuever someone when he can just turn and charge.

S

Hah do I want mechs to beat everything? Nope I enjoy the combined arms approach. Infact I think mechs pre FP are alright and manage just fine (aside from the ridiculous range of charge).

No my problem is making them weaker like is being done in FP's with the low defenses. Sorry but using a 9 attack mech that costs over 200+ pts is just asking to lose whether it keeps it for 5 clicks or not. There are better mechs to use then that and there lies the crux of the matter for any SC players. Ppl want viable options instead of using the same old pieces all the time.

You know, before the preview I intended to buy a whole case. I had my $300 all saved and everything. Now, as I see that most of the 'Mechs that are coming out have lower than 20 defense, I want nothing to do with this set, except for the nice pieces. In DA, almost everything was playable. There were better units than others, but still unit values ranged from 4-7 on a 1-10 base. Now most units range from 2-10 on that same base. I made the most effective army I could, faction pure the other day. It had no 'Mech. I tried it with 3 different factions, and it always came out the same. VTOLs are too powerful, and charging needs to be changed. If 'Mechs were in the 21 defense area that would be great.

Also, concerning the frgility of the Raven, Flea, Locust, whatever. Those things ran like a bat out of hell. Maybe if they had some sort of SE that prevented them from being charged they would be nice, but as it stands, 16-18 defense is asking for pain. Also, if you are going to use CBT comparison with a tanks defense compared to a Mech's, than why are infantry and tanks so freaking fast? I don't remember most of them being that fast in CBT...