The no pushing damage for formations does not hurt artillery as much as you might think. It does have a significant impact on the army with only one artillery piece in it, but the army with 2 or more artillery piece can still put the hurt on you.

Look at it this way, with 2 SS Arrow IV's under AoD rules I can use one Arrow to drop pogs on a mech and a large formation. You must now move or sit and take damage, lets say you (wisely) choose to move.

So now I fire the second one at the same targets. Now you must push or take damage. The smarter thing would probably be to take the damage but many people will push to avoid the pog thinking "haha I don't take pushing damage you fool!"

So now you are pushed and I fire the 1st artillery piece (which is now cleared) and I push the second one as well. Your formation takes 4 damage and your mech has either taken damage or heat.

Also keep in mind that my artillery barrages only cost 1 order now instead of 2 so I have plenty of other orders to spend on assault orders, tank drop, VTOL's, or whatever.

No pushing damage on formations is going to have only a marginal impact on the player who fields 2 or more arty, IMO.

On the other hand, the assault order might be just what the doctor ordered to stop arty. If you can run a mech to the other side of the field your opponent will no longer be able to stop you by sacrificing cr4p infantry pieces from his base screen.

Thus the ultimate weapon against artillery will be the mech, as it always should have been in the first place.

>>

You are looking at it wrong.

The new rules about "formation movement = no pushing damage" turns the waiting period for the arty to land into a disadvantage with AOD rules. It is more about tempo and order denial rather than damage now.
<<

Certainly possible, but the free formation movement isn't THAT good. Help, yes...totally negate, no.

What happens if one unit in the formation is based? So much for the free formation movement (trackbikes and such aren't THAT rare). Artillery is no longer completely devastating in the first turn of the game, maybe (where being based is usually easily avoided), but it still will dominate all other phases, at least if you have 2 Art in your army.

I know, it all remains to be seen, but it sure looks like artillery is just plain messed up.

Take care,

Rick

See, but there is NO order advantage there. You are using 2 actions to hit my formation 1 time, and frankly, if you are using 2 70 point artilleries to shoot at my formation of infantry you are going to lose anyways...

Not only that but you still will be unable to stack pogs so you just spent 3 turns worth of orders to do Only 2 points of damage to the formation not 4 since pogs will still not stack.

@Iltrain.

Anti-personnel does work. I am not even implying a 'Mech's move-shoot range. How about infantry drop? A pair of EBA for instance. And when the formation pushes, it is frozen in time. Plenty of opportunity to hit with a token and get an anti-personnel unit ino place. You know the issues though, you just want to argue! :)

On your comment to fluffy_bunny, you miss something. Sometimes hurting the infantry is the key to winning. Consider how expensive the new infantry are. If an artillery turtle is designed to stay alive then picking off cheap units at your fringe is exactly the way they can win!

Also, what if the infantry are the key to taking the artillery considering what its support is (perhaps they have a tank drop of Fatty waiting for anything to get close to the artillery).

If they take damage it means they're slowed, reducing their effectiveness and making them vulnerable in the end game if your opponent needs some quick VC1 and VC2 shots.

Another thing you miss is that the formation in question could be targeted by two units. Doing 4 damage. That could render both the infantry and whatever they are escorting vulnerable whilst a Skadi or other anti-P monster get close enough for a shot.

On top of that, whilst pummeling the formation, they have another 2-4 tokens to share the love, to make other formations push and so make them vulnerable. Or to harass 'Mechs to lure them into strike range of another unit or else force them to retreat. Then the next turn all the tokens get followed up by three orders-worth of actions.

I really don't think the move - move - clear without pushing damage is enough of a change to compensate for increased order efficiency.

I'm not saying it is unbeatable but I think you are being a little too dismissive. I don't think it is as easy to beat as you are claiming. Sure, the really good players will quickly find a way. In the meantime everyone else (call that 70-80% of players) face either the lazy answer (take counter batteries) or weeks of being pummeled because either the artillery owned them or else they repeatedly overextend to try and get to it!

I never include LOS bonuses because I always assume that my opponent knows how to place terrain, how to use it and, if the terrain isn't there to protect him, how to block me as a side-effect of moving something else.

Last I looked, there are no mortar squads with armour piercing so I can think of some totally immune artillery units!

They don't stack from the one unit. But two units resolve separately. 2 from unit A + 2 from unit B = 4, which is what fluffy_bunny meant.

Under our current understanding of the new rules, 2-pog artillery will be cheese, and Arrow IVs will be broken.

Consider this:
- after my formation of 10 speed pushes, I'm now 10 inches from enemy DZ.
- I have successfully avoided the Long Toms and most Paladins, but my a$$ is free reign to Arrow IVs.
- Whether pogged or not, my formation is doomed as sitting ducks for 2 turns. The enemy now has 6 orders of opportunity to kick my a$$.
- 1 pog to my 3 orders is not a threat. 4 to 6 pogs under units I don't plan on moving are!

;)

Now Draddog and Roadspike have WarPog as a sample to test out the AoD forces. The army is:
3x SSA4
1x SWA4
18x SH ATV
2x DF Donar
---------
450, all AoD compatible.

If there is a balance problem, it will be fixed. But keep in mind that we don't have all the rules yet. :)

You should have added a H Paladin to it.

Finially someone decides on going and doing something like this other than Barzili from the SH thread, who did this for all of the SH artillery. It's interesting how you did it, no pfd file charts.

No Fair!, armor wasn't part of the question :) In the same spirit, then, I will point out that a 2 click damage is raised to three on a critical success. :p No immunity: The Tribe Has Spoken.


All in Good Fun!

-Andy_in_Indy,

I wish there was a smiley that laughed as much as Im laughing now.

You obviously never playtested the new rules. Every player at my venue's unrestricted thought that old arty rules are overpowered with the new peices. All you have to do to get around no-push damage is stagger your pog droppings. Go ahead and move your formation of infantry. Ill drop pogs on it. Go ahead and push the formation. Ill use my other arty peice to drop more pogs on it. If WK keeps the old rules, its almost guaranteed people will use two arty peices in AoD. People will use command to drop pogs without any defecit, leaving 3-4 actions to attack somthing other than your now pushed infantry formations. Or finish them off. Nice thinking Sherlock.


Way worse? I belive the word your looking for is "more". The new rules for new push damage hurts artillery much more.

Not to be difficult or anything, but it was mentioned that some existing artillery may be changed. The Arrow IV's issues MAY be resolved this way (Under the current understanding of the information presented). Of course, it may just be that Mortar Squads are becoming more expensive and less accurate :)


From the Age of Destruction FAQ

-Andy_in_Indy,

#### right. When my venue playtested the rules we pogged and killed infantry. A sylph here, a hoverbike there. Thats about it. A few vehicles were killed, but most points were gained by killing infantry. I almost lost a game because he relentlessly pogged my AA hoverbike formations; I had to salvage one of his arty peices to win. Mechs never touched each other. It was pog dropping allllll day.

Kotch is spot on, thanks for clarifying for me :)