hangman, I understand. I also have a 13-year old truck (and a 2-year old Jetta).

AoD is a much better game. So far, the game is ballanced and seems to favor mechs. I have been able to play several tournaments this month and have had a blast. If MW:DA started with these rules, we would not have lost half of the people who have walked away.

What will it take to bring players back -- money and the playing environment. If the players has the money to spend, they might come back. If the MW players have not moved to another playing environment, they might come back.

This is a "blue" collar area and money is tight. I do not know many who are willing to shell out $$$ every four months for a new expansion to play competitively. Also, I have seen rapid growth in other miniture games -- LOTR, 40K, and CBT. There are only so many gamers, yet there seems to be more games than gamers.

I am trying to bring them back, but seems like a losing battle.

i agree definatlly more games than gamers

The whole tournament concept was introduced together with MW to keep people buying new boosters, of course. Fortunately the rules for AoD are free, so there's nothing keeping people from using their old miniatures with the current rules. You don't need to be in the tournaments to be a MW-player.

But, thats just it a lot of people dont play because now for them to get tourny prizes to sell on ebay they have to spend more money. It's a shame but, all true. When they put tabs on game clubs a lot of people were mad understandably but, it was because the majority of clubs were cheating the system and not doing the tourny's at all and then just sellin the stuff on ebay. It's a shame but, all true.


I know money is tight and most cant shell it out. I for one am in the same boat just recently got out of the military and I am making no where near what I was so, i have to use birthdays and christmas to get the majority of my pieces. I even sold my xbox to get some dough to buy pieces :(. But, I did it because I like the new game and feel its worth me buying and playin now. over 3/4 of my collection was retired but, the rules are so good I am came back.

I wish I were a rich man :)

Case per player! :p


Realistically, money has always been the primary obstacle in getting in to the game. Luckily, we are one of the cheaper CMGs out there, the only place you're likely to play cheaper would be in picking up CCGs.

So don't tell me that money is an issue now, when it wasn't before (unless times change, like in Momba's case. But he's still keeping up however he can, because he likes the game; I admire that ^^;)


Might as well just say "I'm not interested in the game anymore" and move on. Warzog did that, didn't he?

yea, maybe it was, but I have nothing else that is close to show the money that I spent om MWDA

I have found everyday driving has several rewards, some are just pure enjoyment (like playing MWDA used to be, for me it was about the fun because I have never placed above 3rd in any tournament I have ever played in. as a side, I ranked 3rd place in a 3 player game) and some are monetary. like how my insurance has dropped because I have a very good driving record, or how I have received good jobs because I have used my car to get to work on time. of course I am not required to have a "pretty" car to drive on the road, but I sure would get more attention driving a Jag (and wether deserved or not more respect) than the ugly vehicle I have now.

now lets go with the venue and unrestricted play bit. I have been to venues that allow unrestricted play and I hoped to find someone that will play MWDA, herein lies the problem all I have to play with is my old ugly MWDA units and everybody else that shows up (if anyone else has shown up at all) has AoD, I say "what the heck" and am more than willing to play, but now we have the problem as to whos rules set we will go by, I want to use MWDA, because it fits my units, they want to use the AoD rules because it suits their units. well, we agree to disagree and they play AoD without me and again (as usual) am am stuck playing with myself (trust me, that is not a pretty site). so hence my invitation for folks to come over to my house to play MWDA (something I have yet to be taken up on. maybe because I am a scary looking old man?).

unrestricted play in MWDA vs AoD is like playing a fun game of football where my team (MWDA) has shorts and flags on and the other team (AoD) has pads and helmets, not only will this game be no fun and my team will lose, but it will be painful as well.

I do not know racing very well so if I am wrong it is from ignorance and not on purpose. I believe you are right when you say that you race by the rules and restrictions that are laid down by the people running the race (henceforth refered to as the PTB), and rightfully so. but I do not believe that the PTB require you to buy your car and the parts for it from them (every 2 years). I do not believe that the PTB will require you to hire your driver and pit crew from them (again, every 2 years), but that is what WKTs is doing. I accept and understand the need for the rules and regulations, but there is no way short of me purchasing a whole new game every 2 years to play, and I just can not and will not do it (I know you are saying "so what" and I can't blame you, but I am not looking for sympathy, just explaining my point of view).

we used to have inspections in Oklahoma as well, but we got rid of it , thank goodness. but here is the problem with that, I will never ever be able to buy a new car, but I can upgrade my car to the standards that are required for a lot less money. kind of like what I wish WKTs did with MWDA, but I am forced to buy a complete new set just to compete with anyone unrestricted or not.

P.S. it is not about the money, that I could spend (I have never been smart with money, probably why I have an old ugly car), it is about money I have spent. my best example is HDTV in a few years all programing will be in HDTV but guess what, I will not need to buy a complete new TV just to recieve the signal, the PTBs have made a much less expensive converter for poor people like myself. how smart is that. also just how many years has it been that I did not have to buy a new TV because they changed the rules? lets see, when I started watching TV it was free after my purchase of the TV and the antenna, a few years later cable came out and guess what I did not have to buy a new TV, just an inexpensive adapter (of course a couple of years later cable ready TVs came out, again I did not have to buy a new TV) of course with cable it now cost me a little money, so for me a little money for a better product was a good thing. then came VCRs again I could still use my old TV, but now that old TV is even better, for a small ammount of money. I feel I could go on and on about the TV but lets cut to the chase, I could still use just the TV and the antenna and still get the most watched networks in the country (for at least for a year or 2) with no further cost, but I wanted to upgrade my TV so now I have satalite, DVD, VCR, surround sound, video games, and other stuff I have even forgotten and soon, a HDTV converter, all of it cost a lot of money, but I was never forced to buy it all over again with every new addition, like I am forced to do with MWDA.

even computers (except for the old Amega computer, who, when it was time for their upgrade, forced you to buy a whole new computer in order to use their new software (just like WKTs is doing) that is why I did not buy any more Amegas, nor did a lot of other people for that matter. anyone know where Amega is now?) allow you to upgrade without purchasing a whole new compter every 2 years. all I have to do is upgrade. just like what I wish I was able to do with MWDA. :nervous:

dangit, rambling again. :confused:

The whole problem isn't retirement for you its the new rules and having so called ugly pieces! AOD does not require you to play with the new units but, obviously you feel that the only way to play the AOD rules is with new units which is not true. As far as money goes only advice I can give you is what someone told me is the money spent playin this game of enjoyment worth it to you? Do you spend say 50 bucks play and enjoy yourself? if not then obivously its not the game for you. Me what I spend is worth it because I get my moneys worth out of the enjoyment of playing. To be mad over retirement well is your own personal feelings I cantchange them and I used to be mad as well but, knowing I can still play those pieces in unrestricted tournys makes up for it and the new rules let me enjoy the game a whole lot more. If you dont like the changes and retirement I'm sorry and I wish you would stay. It's a lot better game now!

Dude, the new rules suit your pieces just fine! Download them and try them out with your current stuff. And if you've spent that much money you should have quite the collection. Stuff that newbies would love to trade for (hint, hint). Hell, I'M still missing a bunch of pieces. Not to mention that half to a third of your stuff is still legal for ANY tournament. Just attending will help you meet people to play in unresticted type play. Heck you could even signup as a Battlemaster (or start a game club of some sort), run games, improve the pool of players and be GIVEN pieces for your trouble.
If you go to unrestricteds, play with the new rules.
The football/car analogies is more like they have the new, light and shiny, but you have the old, hefty, powerful and reliable.
The racing analogy is also flawed, real racing is EXPENSIVE, and almost every team relpaces the ENTIRE car (and support systems) every year or more frequently. The rules also change based on what the mysterious ruling body decides is 'best'. Then they make you pay fees for the previlage (sp).
As for upgrading for less then buying new, same applies, you already have great stuff, but that one piece would complement your play style, you could get that. You don't even need a converter to use the old stuff, it works fine on its own.
And cable? It's a perfect parallel, they changed things and if you wanted to keep up, you had to pony up some cash. For the converter, and the monthly fees. How much more are you paying for TV now versus before cable?
The problem here is your attitude, if you want to fail, you will. I know its harsh to say, but thats what your posts are telling me. You say they have made your collection into lemons, turn them into lemonade! I hope you'll change your mind and show the new guys the old tricks, they still work, and you'll enjoy whipping out something and people going, 'wtf is that! I've never seen one of those!' Then oohing and aahing until the game starts late.
Think about it.

as I have said in a previous post, I agree the rules are better, I wish they were the rules that MWDA had started with. if anyone thinks that I thought the MWDA ruleset was in any way better than the AoD ruleset I am sorry. I did not mean to give anybody the idea that I did.

ugly was just used as an ajective to describe the subject, it wasn't meant that the units were ugly or pretty. the look of a piece does not (I don't believe) preclude a unit from being effective in game play, heck if that was the case I would have never have played Battletech with those cardboard pieces that I used on many occasions. I used ugly to show how silly I think retirement to be. something has happened tho tournament play that has totally and absolutly banned all of my units from competitive play. one day I could play in a tournament, the next I am reduced to only playing unrestricted games (that is a horrible thing locally, as they do not happen very often, and with all of the rulesets that are out there (MWDA, FAQs, AoD everyone has their own idea as to which one is the best) we end up spending hours deciding which rules to play with).

now I will admit I was speaking from ignorance when I said my units can not play in unrestricted with AoD rules, if they can I am slightly happier, but even then, can my MWDA units compete with AoD units, again I don't know, but it seems unlikely.

$50.00 is a lot of money to me, but if I enjoy something I will gladly pay that much. the question is how often am I required to pay that $50.00? is it weekly, monthly yearly? if I can play a game I enjoy for a year for $50.00 I would consider myself one lucky guy. if I could spend $100.00 in a year, again I would feel very lucky. beyond $100.00 a year I start to look for reasons to continue to invest (before anyone says it, invest is used loosly, I have sold 4 units in the whole time I have played MWDA I mean how many of the same uniques can be used in a single game? all the rest I have traded. I could give a rat flatulence as to how much a unit is worth $ wise.) in the game, MWDA was the first game I spent as much as I did on a single game in my life, nothing else for a game even comes close. heck, I was paying $50+ a month just to enter tournaments, that does not count all of the expansions that I bought. now my willingness to play in tournaments that I have paid to play in the past, now want me to spend even more to play in those tournaments buy forcing me to purchase even more units just to play. I just refuse to do it anymore, because I cannot replace things wholesale, when, in my opinion, the units I have would be more than adequate for the tournament (and as the entry fee was usually used to purchase boosters for the winners, I would have in turn, been buying AoD units. and no I never won, but the promoters usually had a drawing after the winners were awarded their booster, and I won those sometimes, and as I have said I have also won the fellowship award as well which was a booster as well).

maybe I will just never be able to make myself clear on exactly why I am so disgusted, maybe I should just leave it at that. but I am stuborn and bullheaded (and ugly) and it is just not in my nature to just let something go. the one good thing I am sure everybody is very pleased with is at least I do not visit this site near as much as I used to. :)

Seafog, great post, thanks, it was very nice to hear someone with a such a positive outlook for a loser like myself. :nervous:

what I ment for the racing isn't so much the need to upgrade but the "requirement" to upgrade (even as stupid as I am I know in order to compete, you should always upgrade your equipment, but if I am to stupid to upgrade, I should still be able to compete with the equipment I have.)

P.S. I really am stupid, therefore no one with half a brain would want me as a BM, but thanks for the idea. :ermm:

Finding the money to start up a new collection isn't the only hurdle. The major problem around here is the lack of a venue that sells AoD and supports the game through venue play. The local gamers have shifted to Warhammer 40K or have moved on to other things.

I'd love to play sanctioned events again, but short of Gen-Con, I don't see it happening.

I've played games with the current ruleset and miniatures from Dark Age, Fire For Effect and other sets from the past. The current ruleset works fine with older miniatures as well. Just try them out. The AoD-rules are more fun than the Dark Age-rules.

I left the game after FP and I just came back after checking out AoD. I love it. I started playing Star Wars Minis, and I have had to stop, because I can't afford to play both.

I know some people preferred the old rules, but everyone in my area is bigger into the game than ever before. We all think the game is more balanced. Mechs have become far more versatile, artillery has been weakened just enough to be very useful as a support unit(although arty based armies are still powerful), VTOLs aren't as devastating as they once were, and the DF ATVs have been slowed with the new infiltrate order.

All in all, I am more addicted to the game now after three weeks of AoD, then when I first found out there was a new BT on the scene.

To those of you who prefer the old rules, I apologize to you. I was pretty vocal about wanting new rules, so perhaps I am partly responsible(along with others who shared my views). WizKids is a business, and they would not have changed the rules so drastically, if so many people hadn't been asking for them.

So you either get new rules or no more game: harsh either way.