Back to the R10. Okay, so it has Decoy (not all bad, mind you and maybe, if the Enyo and R10 are examples, Decoy could end up being a CJF staple). What does that mean, numbers wise?

I cheerfully grabbed Kotch's hit percentages and attempted to compile a breakdown of what we could expect to see with the R10 taking fire.

Attack: 8. Needs: 10. Chance with Decoy: 40%. Closest to: 12. Effective DV: 20
Attack: 9. Needs: 9. Chance with Decoy: 55.6%. Closest to: 11. Effective DV: 20
Attack: 10. Needs: 8. Chance with Decoy: 69.9%. Closest to: 10. Effective DV: 20
Attack: 11. Needs: 7. Chance with Decoy: 80.9%. Closest to: 8. Effective DV: 19
Attack: 12. Needs: 6. Chance with Decoy: 88.5%. Closest to: 7. Effective DV: 19

It's worth noting that the 9 and 10 were almost smack in the middle of the range, so they can also be broken down to a 19 if you're pessimistic. The Decoy is generally at least a +1 DV and up to +2 in the lower ends. However, under pretty much any circumstance were something serious is shooting at it, it's gonna take a hit. Anything with a 10 or higher has a 2 in 3 chance of hitting, which is pretty reliable so don't let them get the shot off. :)

Oh, and I didn't bother with 13. Anything with a 13 AV trying to smack your transport is pretty much guaranteed to hit.

There's also one other thing going for it: it can formation. A R10 with a pair of Trackbikes can push to move without taking damage. A R10 with a pair of Saxons can push move and pack friends and then ram and then FORMATION FIRE! Yeah, that's it. :)

Raptor II stats are up. Unit is craptastic.

12 move, 3 energy, 2 ballistic (AP), 10 attack, 19 DV (reflective). Gets IT with Alpha Strike. No other SEs. No JJs, no Evade, no high damage.

HEY WIZKIDS. HOW ABOUT NOT MAKING A UNIT THATS INFERIOR IN EVERY WAY TO A UNIT THAT'S A FREAKING LIGHT MECH. IF I WANTED A MEDIUM MECH THAT CAN'T BEAT UP A SOLITAIRE I'D JUST TAKE AN UZIEL. THERE IS NO NEED TO GIVE ME ANOTHER MEDIUM THAT CAN'T INTIMIDATE A HELLION. THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT.

Well WK did tell us the Raptor wasn't meant as a hunter-killer mech. It's not THAT bad although the heat dial does seem really off for us. Either way the mini does look cool in our colors.

Are you kidding? It is, in fact, that bad.

It doesn't do enough damage to make it better than the Goshawk. It isn't significantly faster than the Goshawk. It does the least damage of all the Raptor IIs. It does less damage than the Solitaire. It does less damage than a Thunder Fox. It has to struggle to keep up with the Hellion. It has ONE CLEAR CLICK OF HEAT. It manages to cost 14 more points than the Goshawk without adding any (I say again, any) advantages to the situation.

My God, it's like the Hatchetman stripped of any redeeming SEs. I mean, Armor Piercing on 2 damage? Who the hell cares? Reflective? Okay, so if the opponent does two energy damage, yeah, you're set. If they do more than that, they're almost certain to force you into a shutdown check. Three of the five possible heat clicks are shutdown checks or shutdown period. How does being able to only take two from a Nova Cat make up for that? It can't push, it can't Evade, it has a pitiable DV (THE GOSHAWK HAS A 20 DV AT 130 FOR CRYING OUT LOUD). It doesn't do damage, it can't protect itself and it can't strike from outside anything's range unless it's a drunk Peasant Company and even they're thinking about going mano y mano.

It's moderately quick (but not quick enough; max assault range is something like 19 inches), it's got a reasonable attack. But an assault order puts it into danger territory (VENT 4 BABY). This thing isn't a support mech unless you class the Goshawk as a support mech. It has almost precisely the same profile (hell, for that matter, it's inferior to the JAGUAR) without DFA or the JJ/ECM combo.

You want to know what would own this thing? Solitaires, Jaguars, Hellions, Thunder Foxes, Uziels, Jade Hawks, Ursas, Goshawks, Nova Cats, Shiros, Black Rose, Malice, Persuader, Peacemaker, Esperanza, Duke, Glory, Fortune, Bolt, Quantum, Zeuses, Hellstars, etc, etc, etc. I mean, you're better off listing what it can beat. Like, say, Benj. Maybe.

But other than that, yeah, not a bad paint job. :)

For god's sakes it's just a meduim IS mech. If our loki sucks then we have a good reasion to complain but not about a puny Inner Sphere meduim mech. All of the clan mechs we get have always been very good.

Reason 1 (and, sad to say, the most important), I have too much time on my hands. Sad but true. :nervous:

Reason 2: thinking about these things, in this way, allows me to play them out before I get them. Sometimes I change my opinion in the middle of a rant, sometimes not, but I always learn something.

Reason 3: this thing is a nightmare. It has all of our old problems (low range, low DV, short dial, lots of repair) while adding new ones (no FAs, lousy heat). It's a kick in the fork and a fist to the jaw all at once. :)

Wait until the Loki sibkin

Besides we have the army builder to look foward to. Don't tell me that you aren't looking foward to getting two common Shirkes.

If the Raptor II is the new look of our mechs...I'm not sure I WANT to see anything else.

The mech is simply not usable, though individually a few things look good.

Attack: Starting at a 10 is good. Late-dial IT is nice.

Defense: Reflective armor? Pheh. 19 base? Never let this even get shot at by a tank. A 10AV tank is likely to knock the #### out of this mech as often as not.

Move: Hey, it's fleet of foot.

Energy weapon: 3 damage is nice. 8" range isn't. The alpha strike is nice, but...on 8" range? Good luck finding someone dumb enough to let you get the shot off at all rather than nailing this little thing.

Ballistic: 12" range is pretty neat. 2AP?...That's sort of a waste. I'd rather have 3 natural, and more range. Better yet, I'd rather have my alpha strike on this range bracket, and take SRMs instead of crappy AP LRMs.

Heat dial: Vent 4 is neat. The rest of the heat dial? Utter ####. One clear click of heat renders a mech all but useless. At least the ammo pops don't really hurt, but honestly, the vent of 4 is wasted points. The heat dial isn't doing the mech any favors.

So, overall, we have:
Good AV and good speed on a short-lived, low-firepower mech. It does get some firepower at the end with an 8IT AS, but that's on an 8" range with a 13-14" AO and effectively a 10 attack. Chances are that even if you manage to hit your target, you will not live to use that Vent 4. The ballistic firepower is negligble, the mech's mobility and activity are generally hampered by the heat dial, it's short-lived, poorly-defended, and the armor SE is next to worthless. Had it been reactive, I would have taken it better. As-is, this is a 1-star unit.

But, hey, the paint's ####ed spiffy. And that's all there is that this mech really has to offer.

Far as I see it, the Raptor II doesn't exist in JF colors.

To add to what has already been said, with a heat dial like the one this Raptor has, I wouldn't even field it in a sealed tourney!!!! :rolleyes:

Knowing my luck, I will pull 3 of the #### things at sealed.

We had a sealed Annihilation tourney and I pulled all Solitaires, none of which were the BR models....talk about 'luck' of the draw, and others were pulling 1-3 uniques.

The Raptor II is the first CJF mech built without FAs.... and it manages to bring back the wonderful days of Falcon's Prey stats without the FAs, heat dials or damage (and if you don't have those, what do you have?). If losing FAs means that we pay more for worse stats, I think I can wait actually. :)

yea... I get mixed feelings about the Raptor II.
Cons...
Heat dial is poor, especially for JF
Range is inferior to the other Raptor IIs
Damage is inferior to the other Raptor IIs
Defense just a little on the low side.

Pros.
1st JF non since FP that has a range greater than 10
Really fast mech with a speed of 12(1st medium non for JF with that speed, any other non medium mech with that speed?)
1st JF non with a vent of 4. With pulse, I could see this mech running on the 1st turn, assaulting with pulse on the second, and venting back to green on the 3rd.
Late dial Alpha Strike and Improved Targeting can be a nasty surprise mid game. Nobody can ignore 6 clicks of damage.
Reflective armor affords some protection.
0 damage ammo explosion = free points.

Overall, Its not a total waste but its flawed. I would have loved to see better damage on this mech, and evade might have made all the difference. A better heat dial and better firepower would have been great. Overall a creative attempt, but lacking.

SaKhan Raven Wolf enters the Warrior's Hall of Clan Jade Falcon. He appears disappointed by tha arguements over technical schematics, and walks to the centre to speak. Walking to stand beside Star Colonel White Knight, he begins to address the crowd

*bows to the Star Colonel*

This is my first visit here in a very long while, but I have been drawn in by the debate over the Raptor II, and the negative direction that it seems that this Battlemech is reputely showing.

As a member of a force whom has been the blunt of many "stop complaining" comments, I see a lot of complaining here.

In the day when Falcon's Prey first appeared, many in this esteemed Hall of Warriors did not complain about what an individual piece could do, but rather discussed it's abilities in concert with others. I do not see this particular unit as all bad, personally, especially given that it can do a 6 click Alpha Strike every other turn.

Instead of villifying this Battlemech, find a way to use it in concert with other like-minded (read: Jade Falcon) pieces to make it as deadly as I believe it to be.

Consider utilizing it with a light Mech with Grapple, bringing it's 8" Alpha Strike into the realms of potentially deadly. That is just *one* incidence of synergy that a Hall like this should not only be coming up with, but should be inventing like the falling leaves in Autumn.

I expect more of such a worthy foe than this bickering and moaning. It is below you.

Worry not about the size of a blade, but how to bring to bear upon another's throat.

With his words spoken, the echo barely ebbs before he leaves with his private guard of Purifier Battle Armors. Thinking to himself, he ponders these words:

"Is there no one to Unify them....Compell them....Inspire them....? Where is the Falcon of yesterday?"

But why bother trying to find ways to use an bad mech just for the sake of using it. I don't use my Uziel now so I see no reason to use this when I eventually get one. I really see no reason to take this over the Goshawk, or even a Mongoose for that matter. In my eyes the only thing it really has going for it is how cool it looks. So I think it is worth picking one up if only to have it sit on my shelf and look pretty.