if avante is hit or even the gunners, you are not going to have to roll to hit a 15 (sometimes...when avante gets hit for 4 or more)

But, IMO, you are putting too much emphasis on support while sacrificing offensive might. And without range, how exactly are you going to heal with the faith healer? Are you going to keep it in base contact with avante all the time? b/c if not, it is going to take you to actions to heal avante (1 to move either avante or the healer and 1 to heal). That is just not economical when better options are avaliable.

Also, ME reduces luck factor on those MB rolls a touch (i.e, no horrible 1 or 2 rolls). You are always guaranteed atleast 4 damage (without MB). And 4 damage is enough to put most figs out of commision.

Still, IMO, that faith healer is a very, very weak link in this army. You sacrifice 1 attack on an ability that you will not use in great quantities while gaining more offensive power.

Look at it this way-
the healer and the apprentice are what 44 points together, downgrade the shade and techno and that is 50 points that could be used elsewhere. Throw in a weak shaman and a weak centaur Lt. The centaur Lt. gives you very fragile figs protection and provides virtual healing by preventing damage that would be done by answering opponent's threats towards your figs.

How I would do the army-
Formation 1-
2***amoteps
1*techno

*shaman
*shade
Avante 5
*centaur LT.

or heck even, drop the shade/centaur for a weak imp and add in a war hatchetkrug

The plan, however, was not to get the Avante hit, but to push him (and he keeps his 15 defense for a while.) When I said I didn't want to insult anyone by explaining how to play this army, I assumed that everyone was well familiar with tightly packed cheese armies, as they are cheese. Generally, the Avante is in base contact with the technomancer, which is at least within proximity of the Faith Healer. If I wanted to yoyo, I can obviously land in base with the Faith Healer and Techno, heal push damage, and repeat. Obviously my opponent isn't just a gray blob floating out in the field with no properties whatsoever, but the point is is that the faith healer is there to heal push damage. Like I said, I don't object to the FH's replacement with a Shaman*** at the downgrade of the surok and techno; the shaman can be MLed whereas the FH cannot, but I'm not going to count on a 7 to heal my push damage when I can go for a six, seriously. I miss 7s. BTW, I noticed there was an Avante army at nationals, including a faith healer, but not a shaman. While I didn't build that army, I would assume it has something to do with healing push damage.

There were also many bad armies, that does not mean I am going to copy them just b/c they were at nationals.

And you missed my biggest point, adding a shaman would allow you to add a centuar.

You're right about nationals armies, and I'm certainly not here to kiss the ### of everyone who made top eight at nationals; just cause the armies made top eight doesn't mean they're perfect. However, I really don't want a centaur in my army, and I'm happy with the army's configuration as is. Some people prefer a charge unit to round off a cheese army, but I hate using them. Plus I don't like the idea of removing the ME from the initial configuration of the atlantean formation. I'd be more likely to add the shaman because of its ME and lack of MI, allowing it to be MLed. Faith Healers aren't bad, though, they're what I'd consider the accepted "cheese healer". The army will by no means suck due to its presence. If you're interested in your configuration of the army, by all means play it, but I created mine the way it is for a reason.

Just retorting...

I posted earlier stating that ML doesnt have much of an effect in your army, and most agree. Sorry bud, but you can't ML someone and then attack with them. Read the SAC thouroughly BEFORE you play, and maybe you wont make a fool of yourself. Of course I "realize techno's power" (I play with 3 in my ping/fling army) but they just dont serve the purpose of this army and could be used as another amotep, which will serve you better in the long run. its not like yooure going to be throwing amoteps and faith healers at your opponent. Also, i like 42up's idea of putting in the charger and everyone's idea to put in the shaman. nobody has Magic immunity in this army, so the ranged MH will suit you much better.

Actually, you can't. I think you just made a typo, but trust me, I KNOW how ML works, and I've read the ability. Maybe you should read what you say BEFORE you say it to avoid making a fool of yourself (thought you'd like that.) ML is an incredibly potent ability in any cheese army, this one being no different. As I've said before, and whether you didn't read or just didn't understand, with ML I can yoyo MB, place an amotep gunner vector when I need to, place the surok where I need him, extend the range of my blocker(s) (depending on whether I downgrade to get the gobbo or not). A third amotep does not add all of these possibilities to the army, and, if you do play the version with the charger, you are additionally unable to yoyo that or strategically place the charger with ML without the technomancer.

I don't mind clarifying or even repeating myself, but show me enough respect to actually read what I've wrote. We're talking about plastic figures here, and the artificial atmosphere of confrontation is both imaginary and non-conductive, and I do not wish for it when I'm not out for a laugh.

ya, i did typo. sorry for confusion, but i am just a little pissed when newbies think they know everything and are an A$$ about stuff. I know the technos are good, but I just think theyd be better as a tough amotep.

If you look back in the thread, youll find my old reply and it will make sense. sorry if I dont take your comment too seriously seeing as these were your first 2 posts....

Don't be silly. Post count? I've played since the very day that the game was released. With your method of numbercrunching the army, why don't we just remove everything and add all gunners? In truth, the army has adequate damage dealing capabilities, so another gunner is essentially a third wheel in the strategic sense, whereas the techno adds all the strategic possibilities (and more) that I previously listed. I didn't expect to have to explicitly state that the technomancer is actually the backbone of the army, as is typical with many cheese armies. Without all the neat little ML tactics that make cheese cheesy, its just not cheese. It's just a bunch of numbercrunched figures without a plan.

Uncle Sam = Derek Smalls?

Derek Smalls = Uncle Sam = Franz ?

lol, those crazy, multi-personalitied Englishmen... isn't that like not even allowed or something??

I know Derek became Franz, but I'm not sure about Uncle Sam.

Yes it is... you can't have more than 1 accounts... maybe he was in a friends PC.. it's none of my buisness though.

About the army: I'd downgrade the Technomancer** to * for 2 points. Then i'd downgrade the E$A*** to * for 4 points more. And finally, i'd remove the FH for a Shaman***.

LOL are you for real mulleteer? Ive never seen someone make some many ridiculous statments before....

By your logic, I must be a genius! I have over 1400 posts! And you know what that means right? That means's Ive hit "submit thread/post" 1400 times!

Also, what does that make you? You have a mere post count in the double digits! Back down infidel, a master speaks to you!

*Brandish's post count for all to see

du-du-du-dun!!!!!

Franz-you asked for a review by posting in this forum, a review entitles peoples speculations on how to make it better, but you have disregarded all statements.

BTW-keep the techno ;).