Ok. Whatever. Not gonna argue with several people on this, I'll just get about 50 posts arguing with me and I really dont feel like replying to every single one with a long boring post. Let me just try one more time to explain why I thought what I did and tell me where I went wrong?
Ok, the rule says A SUCCESSFUL attack affects the target and all the others, Altan. This is where I'm getting that part from. It says *A* successful attack affects all others, but if it was dodged it wouldnt be successful.
And Dodge says that if you make your dodge roll the attack missed 'instead' of being successful in hitting.
Now for multiple arrows I never meant to say if one person dodges they are all ok, I meant if the attacker has 1 arrow and wanted to use F/L on a group I was under the impression it had to hit a specific figure and if it did then you compare the attack result to all the B2B figure defences.
If there's multiple arrows and dodge works, then it misses so the figure wouldnt be hit at all by F/L from others who were hit and also he wouldnt do F/L to them either because he was never hit.

What am I interpreting incorrectly? The rule says A SUCCESSFUL attack affects the target and all others, but dodge says if it's used and is successful, then the attack no longer is successful. It misses instead.
So why would a dervish surrounded by mancatchers do secondary F/L damage to them if he wasnt hit himself?
The ability isnt like shockwave. Shockwave says to draw lines of fire to all in range and ignore figure bases and SAs. F/L says one (or A, meaning singular) attack that is successful (as in 'not missing') affects all figures in base contact.
It sounds to me that the ability is meant to be like a fireball hitting a figure, which throws off shrapnel or something from an incinerated figure that hits those standing in his immediate area. Or, it's a chained lightning spell that hits a figure and then arcs off him and grounds into those who are within arm's length of him.

Sorry to prattle on about this, but I really dont understand from the wording in the rules why it would still affect others if the attack wasnt successful and just in case this ever comes up in a game I would like to be able to explain the reasons.

Hope this explains my side of the 'evidence' Arrik :p

An F/L attack is resolved against a primary target and all figures in base contact with target: "..make only one attack dice roll; compare that result to the defense value of the target figure and every figure in base contact with it." Hitting the "figures in base contact" doesn't depend on hitting the target figure, only on the attack beating their defence. A Striker can shoot at a Storm golem surounded by Demi-magi and, rolling a 5, miss the Golem while hitting all of the Demi for 1 click each. In the same way, a Striker can shoot at a Dervish surrounded by Mancatchers and with the 5 "hit" them all: the Dervish now gets to attempt to Dodge but his success or failure doesn't matter to the MCs: they still got hit. F/L is really an attack against a group, with one being selected as the primary target to determine who is effected. Dodge only effects the result against that figure, not the group.
Your eror is in thinking that the primary target has to be hit for the other figures to take damage: that's not how it works.

AF, don't feel bad about getting a little confused on this issue. The reason we've been explaining it for more than a year is that it can be a little confusing. At one time, a long time ago, I believe FL did work in the way you are thinking. But the wording for FL now indicates that each figure is checked separately to see if it was hit, despite other words which may appear to contradict this. If each figure's reaction to an attack were controlled by the primary target being hit, the game mechanics would become too complicated. So even though it's one attack and one dice roll, each figure may be hit or missed independantly of each other. The only exception to this rule is for Explosive Damage which, coincidentally, works exactly like you are describing. So at least you'll be an expert on Explosive Damage when that issue comes up in your games! Time to buy yourself some Titans!

Just to help you explain this to others when it comes up;

quote:
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Give this warrior a ranged combat action and reduce his damage value to 1. A successful ranged combat attack affects the target figure and every figure in base contact with the target, delivering 1 click of damage to each figure successfully hit.
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"Ok, the rule says A SUCCESSFUL attack affects the target and all the others, Altan. This is where I'm getting that part from. It says *A* successful attack affects all others, but if it was dodged it wouldnt be successful."


This, while somewhat ambiguous, is correct. A successful attack will AFFECT the Primary Target and all figures in contact with it. The word affect simply means the attack has the potential to hit those figures should a successful attack against them be made. The key words are,

"Make only one attack dice roll; compare that result to the defense value of the target figure and every figure in base contact with it."

This shows that each figure's fate is determined individually rather than as a group. I sincerely hope this helps.

Ok, thanks. Yeah, I already have all the titans, except Gilgarsh which I didnt get because I had other things to do that payed off more than winning a MK league and getting the figure.
Aaaaanyway, not my fault, wording is bad. :D I figured it may have worked something like explosive damage only not near as powerful. Guess not. It's like the mutated, slutty love-child of explosive damage and shockwave :p
The reason it keeps popping up is because WK never fixes their bloody mistakes on the cards and in the books. They just keep printing them the same way and slip the errata under a rug somewhere on mageknight.com :p

Thanx.

Actually, you did an excellent job. So many people ask questions or for corrections but don't give how they arrive at their interpretations. It makes it rather difficult to address where understanding may have taken a left turn. :D

Everybody else seems to have put you on the path of truth and righteousness, so it's all good. :D

ooh..yandros I would like to finish to read yah post but there's too mutch data input...brains....hurt......*shutdown*

Tha Greetz

Don Di@blo

I have seen the light! I shall go forth and reap the whirlwind of truth, justice, and the other stuff too! Bring on the Amazons and Succubi and Solonavi Courtesans! I'll take em all on! ;)
Ok, well that truth and righteousness lasted about 3 turns till I kidna... I mean 'captured' :D some scantily clad women. Bring me my limo and lots of alcohol! Them Amazons is stout pieces of tail. :p

this thread or topic NEEDs to be put up somewhere where n00bs can see it .. this can very well enlighten ALOT of misled ppl out there .. thinking as what AF has been ... this can really HELP alot :)

Um... yeah. Bite me, ID100.

uuhmm AF i did not specifically meant you ...
i meant it in general ... not out to get anybody or something ...
i just want this information reg. F/L to be known to n00bs and everyone alike ... i myself didn't know about this UNTIL 2 weeks ago :( *sigh*

This is the primary arguement for the Errata and Rulings document to be made public.

Dodge allows you to dodge attacks that Target the Dodger.

So, you can Dodge Critical Hits, you can dodge Piercing attacks, you can dodge missile and melee attacks, but you CANNOT dodge splash damage (Not the primary target), shockwave (all abilities except Aquatic), Explosive Damage (Again not targetting the Dodger), Magic Retalliation (Not an Attack), Ram (Not an Attack), Poison (Not an attack except in Dungeons) or Polearm(Again, not an attack).

In the matter of:
"What about a formation of 3xDodgefigures that each are the target of a triple F/L striker?"

They all get to make 1 Dodge since the attacks are simultaneous.
That Dodge is only for the TARGETTED attack, not the splash. Assuming the Primary Attacker makes his dodge, the targets who had their armour rating tied or beaten by the attack DO take the splash Damage. So here are your examples:

3 Targets, all have dodge, Attack is successfull against all 3 targets. Armour value is say 16, attack value is 16 so all 3 Targets make a Dodge Roll. Before dodge rolls, current damages are 2 for the outer targets (1 primary, 1 splash) and 3 for the center fig (1 primary, 2 splash). If all 3 figs make dodge rolls then the damage is 1, 2, 1. If any fig misses it's doge, then the damage goes up by 1. Simple enough?

I hope that this helps.

Ummm, Arbaal, I know you came into this late, but please read the whole thread. We just finally succeeded in explaining to Arctic Fox why "splash" damage can be dodged (attack is resolved against both primary target and all adjacent figures) and now you pop in and simply say, without bothering to argue against the previous arguments, that it cannot be dodged.

Arbaal said:
But the SAC says:
This is NOT the same. The "splash" damage is damage from being hit by a ranged combat attack, as evidenced by the fact that you compare the attack roll with the defense value. Therefore, the "splashee" gets to roll for Dodge.

DragonVenom

Arbaal, are you saying that if I FL a figure and he is touching a figure with Dodge that he won't be able to Dodge because he is only taking splash damage? If so, that is incorrect. You are correct on everything else.

A simple Dodge rule: If a dice roll was made and compared to a figure's Defense, that figure's Dodge will work. The exceptions are; Shockwave, Magic Confusion.

Looks like DragonVenom boarded your sinking ship right before I fired the cannons! Sorry, didn't realize you were going for the capture. And, unfortunately, since you're not my primary target DV, no Dodge for you! :p

Eh? I believe I said the same as you, Altan. Therefore, I don't take "splash damage" because of Invuln. :D

DragonVenom