Well, 8" speed seems decent, and for the mounteds 10"-14" isn't too shabby (though 8 is all we need). You're kidding, right? (on how to score points). You get as close as you need to for the mounteds to base him, and then you charge in. Or you base him and move your big guns up. Terrain makes this much easier. Regular 12" ram makes this more fun.

Trust me, I've killed every Corpheus I ever met in a campaign/tournament, and it isn't very magical. He just up and croaks after you knock him out of bound. If his support is Astrus and they are playing a "Fort" version with him, this is the most difficult thing to deal with, but other than that, Corpheus can be killed. Just get him when he is left out there hanging in the wind because of his MI. You could even just assign three fell reapers to him (two tough) and that should be enough. Four is more satisfying, but 3 is enough to kill him in oh, about 2 minutes flat.

Just dangle something at him that you "Forgot" to cover with your LI wall, or leave a mounted "accidentally" exposed on the end. He'll bite and then you blow his head off/surround him and chop it off. Just don't forget healing in your army...

Key here is to back him up to a corner/edge of the board and pounce, or have him go vigilante and alone and try and take you that way. Don't give him targets to shoot unless he already has a token. Then when he pushes, nail him. Or just back him up and pounce on him. If you are using fells, Corphy only needs to be within 13" of them for them to pounce and completely surround him. Once he's in your ring, he is easy to kill.

Big Blocking terrain works. You can get it so Corphy's 10" bound doesn't get him around far enough to shoot ya at a very good angle. I've killed him off with just a single solitary CP and some big blocking (and an Amazon Drac :) ).

Heck, you can even use little throw away pieces with lots of life (outriders, dwarven berserkers, squires, nightblades, other things with a fair amount of life) to mess with his LOS. Most Corpheus players are unwilling to commit him to a shot on the little guys for fear of retaliation.

It's not rocket science.

You're assuming your opponent won't see thru your bait and choose to ignore it, trusting himself to that magical 50% chance at success. The dice roll at the end of the game.

You never have to assume anything when you are backing someone into a corner.

A friend and MK warlord also said the Water Minion might be better, 20 defence+dodge not bad eey.
Altough it has only 8inch range...

Corpheus Bounds farther than that. But well done bringing up a Minion. The Wind Minion could change the look of the game against Corpheus....

Masta is correct. Soem people sure as heck know when they are being baited and when they are not. It should be a risk reward system and if I am going to risk putting my 128 pt fig out there I am thinking i am going to get one heck of a return on that.

To chase Corhpeus your going to have to break away from the group some leaving open shots. This is not corpheus alone against another person's army they are packing support also. that support is different now then the campaign/tournaments because most of the threats to him are gone now.

You miss the point. Whatever 128 points the person used on Corpheus are now gone forever for them. As long as you can use those points better with things that will kill him together, you are okay. They also have limited their healers to Close Combat Non-magical healers. This also gives you an edge.

You must never forget, Corpheus is 128 points of hard-to-heal glass jaw. Blazing-fast glass jaw, but once you knock him out of bound, he is really really slow. Any healer that wants to base him is going to be coming to YOU.

I don't see why you have to leave your LI wall to chase Corpheus. You ever see those Horror movies like Friday the 13th? The victim alway runs and runs, and is a frantic mess, while the undead killer just coolly takes measured step after measured step until he reaches his objective. If Corpheus ever comes to you, his death is all the faster. Great! If not, he has to keep backing up. Really, it's not rocket science. That is why you die all the time when you face him. Don't leave your protective group on some hair-brained chase after him. What is the purpose of that? It's just like skeet shooting for him if you do that.

No barrel, all the threats to Corpheus are still there. You just have to find them. Here is a little exercise for you to do, if you have or know someone who has a large amount of goblin volunteers. Pick any unique out of the pile. Get as many goblins as you need to fill up the points of the unique. Now chase him around with the swarms of little buggers until you kill him.

This works for about 95% of the uniques out there. It is very enlightening on how to take out a big fig.

Let me give you an example of how all Corpheus "threats" are not gone. Get a vampiric drac, a wind minion, some shadows, some crystal protectors, and some other LI pieces. Make an army out of them. How do you think these will do against Corpheus? Hmm?? Forget blind fear, man.

If you were to play in national today with the new rules what are you going to play? You are not going to play a bunch of gobos.

Your were talking about baiting a player in and that doe snot work all the time. I have witnessed people fall for some stupid stuff in my time.

Unless your whole army can move in one turn or fairly close you will have to creep along to protect youself. The other option is to go all LI lie your example and how well is that going to do against the field? It will get mauled by The Tank.

No not all the threats are still there by a long shot. Pyre/ml could out range Corpheus. Ml shades and mancatchers coudl tie him up until you finished off most the rest of the army. It is not happening now. A ml SB could tie him up while charger set in in range. Now you have to give him one target that can live after the shot ( which is not too hard) and be able to either 1 surround him or 2 be able to fire back with a heck of a lot of firepower. Thats 2 options from about 6 you had before.

In a few weeks we will have National Qualifiers 200pt H2H. How many Corpheus do yo uthink you will see around the US that weekend? How many people are going to win with a Corpheus army? we'll make sure we keep count.

It seems to me that you are being awfully condescending Jedi-master. Apparently there are a lot of things you haven't thought of either. Instead of blind fear, you seem to have blind faith. One one the problems inherent w/an internet forum in general is you often really don't know much about the poeple you are chatting with(although by paying attention to peoples posts you can often get a clue of where they are skill wise). I think its pretty arrogant of you to assume that barrel and many others who feel Corhpeus has become extremyl dangerous haven't already considered some of the "threats" you talk about it. But I digress. I will make a few comments and then I will bow out for now.

1. The whole proposition of backing a Corpheus into a corner w/out puitting your pieces in danger is simply ludicrous. He can move 20" in one turn. We all know about fell reapers and their potenital to base him after he has taken a shot. But, you are assuming that he is going to send Corpheus out into open terrain, unsupported and w/no terrain protection. And if you have been playing people who do this, then they are defintely not very good players. Period.

2. You say, " That is why you die all the time when you face him." How do you know? I happen to have worked w/barrel a lot on the Corpheus issue and I assure that a Corpheus has never run over either of us. But, one of the best ways to handle Corpheus just got removed(Ml/ram). So, Corpheus HAS gotten a lot stronger.

3. Take the time to look at the top armies out there that have done well at large events and you will notice something missing: Vampiric drac, wind minion, and shadows. There is a reason no one has suggested using this pieces. Only a fool builds his armies to deal w/one thing.

You wanna bet? You will play gobbos. Remember the flying V? With a shockwaver? Onion ring? With a power piece inside? Gobbos are still good harrasment. Nothing cheaper, not by a longshot.

Yeah it was Corpheus 200 in one of the campaigns I played. The guy I played against only had room for Corphy and Astrus, and a bunch of weak pieces. Corpheus in 200 is even better, because he eats up so much of the point total.

I killed off the other guy's whole army. I did use yo-yo once, but you can do modified yo-yo now with a cheap crystal protector and a techno. That sure looks like darn good-tasting bait to me. The players that take it aren't stupid barrel. They are going to be compelled to take the bait or get reverse yo-yo'd.

I'll still be killing Corpheus, and I guess the rest will all roll over and die, right? Are you going to throw your hands up and die too? Just because your pet tie-up strategy no longer applies?

I would happily face 128 pts of goblin vol's versus corpheus in a 50 minute timed game using terrain and both of us starting in out start areas. Heck I would take on 200 pts of them with him:

1. Corpheus can bound and still stay 12" away from the goblins.
2. Corpheus can bound backwards still being in range of shooting the goblins, but out of their move range by 4"
3. a lone goblin will need pretty amazing rolls to hit corpheus in the event he does base him. Corpheus can rest with a goblin basing him trusting that your not going to roll the 11 or 12 needed to hit him.
4. Formation moving them will be suicide with his 3 target F/L the goblins will have to be moving solo.
5. He breaks easy, and if based can run 20 inches away behind water terrain.


As for the general topic about him:
Its going to be very hard to pin a corpheus down. Any skilled player running them knows how fragile his dial is. They will base the rest of their army around this. They will not commit their corpheus to a position where he can be surrounded, or swarmed, He sure is heck isn't going to push corpheus where you can retaliate. He is more likely going to push to run away and get corpheus clear. He will make his army mobile, and design it to be able to punish you for going after corpheus. It will incorperate LI to deal with ranged shots, and chargers to deal with guys coming after corpheus. It will also probably be running 2 healers so corpheus has two places to retreat to and be healed.
Something like:
Corpheus
Crystal protector***
Shadow** (black dirge if you have him)

Faith Healer***
Hvy Lancer***
Hvy Lancer*
SB*

With out ML, the ability to chase after this style of army is completetly gone. Sure you can run an all LI army, but what happens when you face off against a Charger swarm or tank? LI guys are not the most cost efficient attackers against non ranged guys. They trade in offense and durability for the inability to be shot at. This hinders them against the offensive power of chargers.

the threat of Corpheus armies is going to be very apparent in the next few months in the 300 pt format. He may be a bit too expensive to run in 200, but the uber bounders like Bakus and Khumeret and Aycorn can step up in his place ruining the 200 pt format as well. With out the threat of ML/ram or ML/harrassment keeping the bounders in check, they are going to dominate everything. Normal ranged can't hurt them because they will be running LI blockers, and normal melee can't catch them. This leaves chargers and bounders to be the only really viable figures to run. And trust me, things like magic confusers and magic freezers aren't gonna take em out.

Why is anyoen goign to compelled to take a pop shot at a techno? With modified yo-yo your not going to have the range to get Corpheus. So if the techno is not realy a big pieceof tastey bait and your not going to reach with any yo-yo then why do these players feel compelled to attack? What are bounding with? Striker or Bakus are the closest things and he still has them out ranged.

I am not saying Corpheus is the be all end all I am saying he is a lot worse now then he ever was. Bshugg hit it right on the head with what he is saying.

Look, I'm not trying to be condescending, and I apologize if it sounds like that. It's just I'm hearing all this despair now over Corpheus, like he is God Mode in a hacked game or something.

How many times have you killed off Corpheus, Wkura? I have done it many many times. I have the experience. If that is blind, I will take it over your "knowledge" any day. You sure sound pretty condescending yourself in your post. Look, you guys are both clan brothers. What reason do I have to be condescending to either of you? Maybe it's my irritation at all this helpless wailing that is showing through and being misinterpreted.

1) Corpheus isn't terrain protected or he couldn't get a shot off. You can't have a 12" LOS AND be nestled in terrain. Can you? Is Corpheus a magic blaster now? Does he bound into hindering? I have no idea of what you are talking about now. If your army is hiding behind hindering, Corpheus is going to have to come all the way around it and shoot you, unless he grows magic blast. Sounds like it has to be clear from him to you, to me....Ludicrous? Back it up!! I really don't like your tone here and don't think you have any ground to stand on here. If it is water you are talking about...whoop de doo. Curtain wall in front.....

2) That was a rhetorical question. Are you going to die, OR LIVE? I'm not saying he does either. You just inferred that. I couldn't be happier two brother don't get run over. Again, watch your tone.

3) You are missing something else. 2 of the 3 pieces you name didn't exist at that time. I really doubt only a "fool" plays shadows. Again, your tone is beyond condescending, and if you don't know how to play shadows (come over and play, I will help you learn)....

Look, if you have nothing better to do than be condescending yourself and throw out these points that are easily refuted, find someone else to play 'opposing flame throwers' with. There is nothing I hate more than trying to talk to someone with that kind of tone. I really, really hope I misunderstood you, and that you are not calling anyone a fool or acting so condescending....

I am quite disappointed right now in you, Wkura. As a trader, you are excellent, but I'm not getting a good read right here. As for barrel, he is alright, and we've had this kind of discussion in the past (remember venom? barrel :D) He is a joy to talk to and I KNOW he is not condescending and hope, really hope he does not think I am being condescending.

Barrel, please let me know if you feel slighted or looked down upon. I would never want that, and would want to iron over any of that and smooth things out.

That is the thing, barrel. Corpheus can come towards you, or he can go backwards. Especially if it is 200 points, he is not going to have a whole lot of support. Maybe you have a yummy charger for him to shoot on the same line as the reverse yoyo, or maybe you ALWAYs move your army up to the line where the crystal protector and techno are. If he wants to hit you, he is going to have to be shootable.

He can't range you and not be ranged back. If you are always moving towards him, you will meet him. Yes, I suppose we are in agreement that one of the ways we have dealt with Corpheus has been lost, so barring no other ways are come up with, he IS stronger.

I think my point is that he is quite beatable. It takes more strategy, but as with everything else, the more practice you have, the better you get at it.

And btw, thanks for being a foil in the discussion. It's really hard to have a two-way conversation with yourself, and I really hope you don't feel looked down upon. It was never my intention.

The point is not that Corpheus is God Mode but he just went way up in his ability to be played while the ways to contain massive movements have gone down. Moose's Corpheus build is a pain now and after the rule change it just got better. Just liek you feel like I am saying he is greatest fig ever now it comes across liek you believe he is no big deal at all. If you believe he is no big deal at all then we do have a difference of perspective.

When Wkura brings up item number 3 he is refering to Chi town Con when there was a chance at a grand up to be split among the top 4 players. Now if your going to play for a grand then your going to bring your top army and your A game. We saw 1 wind minion and past that a Marrow. I did play against a Vamp Drac, shadow, Nyx army the day before with Alcatraz at the controls. He took 2nd in Chitown.

Wkura and i got Corpheus at Gen Con a month or so before he hit. For about 2 monthes we playtested him against our current builds, in new builds, and against our new builds. We always knew there was chance you would have to face him so you had ot be ready.

I do remember the venom thread: venom the new cheese I believe it was called. After a lot of going back and forth I found out you were using fells with the rancid bloodsucker. I also believe that was pre shakeoff days.

corpheus will show up in droves in a few weeks when National berths are on the line. Soem will when and some will lose but peopel real realize that he is harder to deal with now then before. The rule changes were suppose to help bring some different figures to the tournie scene and what they did were taking the shakles off of Corpheus.