But we're only talking about Mages, PreacherMan1. :confused: Bassan isn't a Mage, he's a Fighter.

And for that matter, Defend is an SA that usually comes first with Healers (Oracle Matteo, Priestess Wylune, Pearl, Rurik the Blessed, Lady Skeri (as Level 4 & 5 Healer)), and then second with support/leadership-type Fighters (Sir Mishler, Queen Aurora, Lady Skeri (as Level 2 & 3 Fighter)).

The only Mage who has Defend is Chaotic Grimm. ;) And that's because he's... CHAOTIC... :D

And Grimm too!! ;)

Doesn't Ryjalon get Defend at his high levels (4 & 5) as well? He's is sort of a Fighter/Mage as has been said earlier on this thread.

hehe... try this team if you're into mages:

barber hurgg 21pts lvl1 = heal, ME
magus anendu 28pts lvl1 = F/L
mage king alment lan 23pts lvl1 = MB,ME
council lord jamus 28pts lvl1 = nimble,ME

anendu's high attack f/l, coupled with 3 ME's, will wipe out a cluster of weak and standard MS...
i tried this team just once, and it passed my standards...

Ryjalon IS a mage. WHo happens to able to smash things on his own. That's why he's so expensive. 'Sides his story is that he's a Shaman, which imply caster.

Ryjalon (as well as most of the other new Heroes) makes wonder... :)

Guys, just what makes a Hero a Mage, anyway? :confused:

Is it that the character's background is that of a Mage?

Is it how that character plays in the game?

Is it how his stats run?

I mean, surely, Ryjalon counts as a Mage in the sense of him being a long-range attacker with Flame/Lightning, but he just seems too tough to fit the fantasy archetype. ;)

Sure, you level up guys like Joram or Seeker Contri, and they're bound to do Damage and annoy your opponents to no end, but they can still be overwhelmed in close combat or due to brute force- not so when Ryjalon himself gets running!

We had Week 4 of the Imperial Games last Sat, and only one guy played Ryjalon- and he swept all of us aside with him! :eek:

What defines a Mage in Dungeons?

In Dungeons, it was easiest, the heroes that are in the mage slot of the teams of four. In Pyramids they somewhat broke the pattern, so you had to look at the teams and take out the fighter, healer & thief and what was left was the Mage.

Dragon's Gate broke the whole team of four pattern, so it's not so easy. Indeed, I'll argue that there are very few of that archetype in the set (at least purely).

Lets look at the known mages:
Mage-king Alment Lan
Scholar-magus Bessa
Joram Hawklord
Erithia Starsdawn
Avante Reaver
Tinker Geely !!
Chaotic Grimm
Norfur Tholtt
Ravenbane ?
Seeker Contri
Fathom
En-zar
Ember
Morvana Stormbringer

Here are some observations:
Heroes with multiple arrows were mages before Dragon's Gate.
All figures with Magic Blast & Magic Levitation are mages.
All heroes with Magic Enhancement are either Mages or healers.
Heroes with Flame/Lightning were Mages before Dragon's Gate.
Heroes with Flight were mages, before Dragon's Gate (depends on your opinion of Ryjalon).
I don't think long range attacker qualifies, because too many heroes break that rule from the beginning (Shayle for one, a fighter who was the only figure with 12" range for ages).

Personally, I think WizKids has been getting further & further from the archetypes. Dungeons only had a couple of odd figures in the archetypes (Tinker Geely as a Mage, Daketh as a "healer"). Pyramids did more (Darq's chicks has a fighter, a poor healer & mage and no real thief). Dragon's Gate seems to have avoided the entire issue. A few heroes fit the archetypes, but I think it's mostly coincidence. More and more heroes seem designed to fit multiple roles rather than single archetypes.

Of course, if you look outside the three Dungeon sets, you'll find more heroes who don't follow the rules. Lots of Heroic Quest figures break the standard rules for archetypes and the Uprising heroes tend to cover multiple roles.

10AV @ 10R for 2 damage at level one for 28 points is darn good. He gets MB at level 3 and suffers the usual "do I roll or go with the 3 damage" that many figures suffer in that era of WK's "cost what cost?" development policy. Good power trio for Orcs was Morg, Nofur, and Kamune for 95 points, three figs with 10AV. Kill the other team first, then mess around with treasure chests!

corwin

My personal favorite is norfur Thrott. At level 2 he is a beating of a fighter and at lvl 3 gains +1 attack and Magic blast. I generally use him and Lord Andreus a lot. Most of the F/L mages are junky. MB is the way to go.

My mages messenger...

Joram, Norfur and Avante - and they do get the limelight once in a while...

you just didn't catch the ol' dungeons scene way way back at NG, where Minotaur Mages and Warriors are about!

autumn is sort of a mage with mag lev
but has healing

Zektabi is an extremely underated mage.

double target shockwave for only 29 pts? I am so there.

Look at the advantage over a common setup.

--------------------EXAMPLE 1--------------------------
Kzar Nabar (lvl 1) enters a room and instantly turns over an irritating number of satyrs ( cheap, popular dodge- only 15 points for a yellow one)
Nabar needs a 4 or better for a whopping 4 clicks of damage. BUT the satyr might dodge it, and the ever dangerous threat of a lucky counter attack looms overhead, not to mention the fact that the other satyrs are still about! It might take Nabar forever to take out those satyrs!

-------------------------------EXAMPLE 2-----------------------------
Zektabi (lvl 1) walks into the same type of room, with the deadly satyrs running amuck. he advances to a good central position and BAM double target shockwave! He needs a 7 or better to hit the pesky Satyrs, and if he hits, it IGNORES dodge! whoohoo! the attack demoralizes the satyrs, and NO threat of a counter attack! Zektabi cleared the room piece of cake. I know most people look at his stats (especily lvl 5) and see a fragile useless mage. But if you look deeper, at his hidden potential in lvl 1, he can easily clear a room of dodgers

Double target Shockwave means nothing. For one thing, Shockwave doesn't target figures at all (if just effects them).

However, I admit Shockwave is a slightly more useful ability since the FAQ now admits that you don't get counterattacks vs. Shockwave. Still, it doesn't come off very often.

gearhead1911, I'll give Zektabi the benefit of the doubt since I've yet to try or see him in action, but I'd just like to point out that your example only works in a very specific situation.

It's not given that you're always going to be running into a bunch of Satyrs or other form of Dodger in every game you play. Furthermore, Dodge isn't that powerful in Dungeons, since it only works 1/3rd of the time. Lastly, Satyrs aren't that big a threat. There are lots of other nastier and just as cheap MS wandering about out there who can easily take that 1 click- and laugh evilly about it when they retaliate... :eek:

Just like any Fighter, Thief or Healer being chosen for a Team, the best Mages for Dungeons, IMHO, would be ones capable of operating effectively in almost any given situation, not just against particular opponents. Which is why Ryjalon is currently top dog, or pumped-up Magic Blasters come in so recommended- sure, steady, big Damage, plus some other bonuses.

I very rarely see Shockwave and haven't tried it myself, but I do know it's powerful. Next time I play, I'll borrow my friend's Zektabi and give him his shot. ;)

I agree that Mages often miss out on the spotlight in dungeons. I created a scenario just for mages called Mage Duel. Go check it out and let me know what you think.