First of all, I didn't mean any offense. :( And I apologize if you did take offense.

Second, it's up to a player whether or not he chooses Baran for his team, with all the disadvantages and advantages he comes with. If you prefer someone better (and for that matter, of course there are better and cheaper (both at the same time) Heroes out there!), no one's stopping you. Especially if those guys will hand you an honest and undeniable win.
But for me, experimentation and discovery is one of the keys of having fun with Dungeons and is, more often than not, more important than just merely winning. ;) Coming up with new Heroic Teams, Mage Spawn pools, maps and new strategies- the sheer novelty, innovation, and discovery of new ways to play- the utter replayability of the game- is one of the integral elements that keeps MK Dungeons such a fun and deeply strategic game. :)

Third, I must point out that you treated Baran rather harshly in the post previous to mine, and then now say that he's "OK". "Worthless" is not "OK". It seems strange for me standing up for a fig, but I'm going to do it because Baran's stats and combos have piqued my interest and because I'm willing to try him out (tomorrow, in fact).

Fourth, yes Ryjalon is a monster, and I like Gora'din, but I want to give another of D's G's (generally screwed up) Elite Heroes a chance. Gora'din is just so hard to use at times, given his low Speed (tried him 3 times so far, died on 2 of them), which is why I'm so interested in Baran, who at least comes with impressive Range combat ability and whose Speed increases greatly as he levels up, as compared to the troll's.

Once again, I'm sorry. :( Peace, dude. :cool:

Arrgg how do I always get into these arguments? I used to have fun posting on the Realms. Now anytime I post any opinion on MK whether it be a serious discussion or just for fun, I get five "experts" badgering me about what I have said. No wonder I don't post much anymore.

Firstly, I know that you post a bunch on the Dungeons threads Messenger. I read many of your comments and I find them be very good and many times I agree with / take into consideration what you say. So I am not offended per say that you disagree with me, more so that you insist on taking me to task about it. Especially when there were others saying basically the very same thing, but you chose to single me out.


Second, I already said and agree with you on the point of letting the player choose what he wants to and or experimenting with new and different Heroes. That's why I said - if you or anybody else likes Baran and has success with Baran, then by all means use Baran. But as I see it, if I have Baran here and Darq, Vija, Kazar, Hitash, Gora'din, Carlana etc. at my disposal as well, guess who's going back in the box? Name starts with a B and ends with a N and has a ARA in there too.


Third, you are correct. I have been unfair and inconsistent with my comments on Baran. So since I am being put on the spot I will correct myself for the record - mostly useless. There, is that PC enough for everybody?

Fourth you mention Gora'Din being "hard to use" in Dungeons because of his low speed value. Guess who starts with a "6" speed at 1st level just like Gora'din? Yup you guessed it - Baran. Granted he does improve quickly like you said, but unfortunately it's too low to take advantage of his Sneak Attack SA in combat at his low levels
since there are many times that you need to break away or pass through to use this ability. And you are not going to do much of that with a 6 or 7 speed.

I am not going to argue about this anymore. You do a great job with your threads / posts / comments on the Dungeons Boards Messenger and most of the time I am right with you on what you have to say. And I am sure that I will agree with you / take advice from your comments in the future as well. Just not this time.

Even saying all of this, I still might give Baran another chance now that he has an 8 Range officially. Heck I might even end up liking him a bit more than I do now. But I know that I will never use him in a competitive tournament. Not while Darq is available to do my bidding. :cool:

Then, once again, I apologize. :(


I did not single you out, or at least not intentionally.
I first reacted to Fabiuz26's reaction to Baran. Why I didn't react to anyone else prior, I guess was because I was looking only at the most recent post in the thread. In replying to his post, I explained why I liked Baran and why I thought he was a good fig.
Your reaction, to me, seemed to ignore the points I raised. I replied, you reacted, I reacted, you reacted- that's what caused this whole mess.


Hmmm... Part of this misunderstanding is because you and I (as well as everyone else) have a different style of playing Dungeons, and for different reasons at that.
It's normal and practical for any player to include only the best Heroes of the game in any Dungeons game. This is the conventional style of playing, choosing the guys who give you the most chance of winning. Nothing wrong here- the good news about Dungeons is how its game system's inherent fairness and balance keeps this still in check.
I'm the kind of guy who likes to experiment and try out new combinations of Heroes when I can. I honestly like trying out new Heroes each time I play. It's just fun. :) It's different; it makes things more interesting than just doing the same thing over and over and over again.
I also like to challenge myself. Rather than fielding Darq or Hitash, or any other big guy, I'd rather fight them and see what I can do with other Heroes- the overlooked, but potentially game-worthy figs of the game. ;) I like underdogs- winning with them makes the glory all the more satisfying. I've got Vija and Carlana, I admit- but I'll rotate my usage of them with my other guys.


Honestly, neither is that fair. Look: I really want peace between us, but I still have to say that "mostly useless" is not "OK".
I have to go back to the point of this thread. 8" RANGE! It's always good to have a range attack in Dungeons. And the other things that he has makes him above any form of useless.
For the sake of understanding, I will be honest with you. When the first FAQ immediately following D'sG was released with no word on Baran, I was just disgusted. With the exception of Ryjalon (and perhaps Gora'din), no other "Big Elite" fig in the set was worth play- most especially Baran Skullcracker without his Range. And my reasons were exactly yours: very mediocre stats in Speed and Attack combined with SA. As soon as I saw it, I placed Baran in my Trading Box.
But that 8" Range makes a world of difference (see below). Suffice to say, as soon as I saw this thread and the new FAQ, I rescued Baran from the Box and threw him into my Hero Pool, fully with the intentions of trying him out as soon as I could. :cool:
Had he not gotten that 8" Range, I wouldn't be debating with you.


Ah... But that's the point of this thread! :D He finally gets his 8" Range!
That low starting Speed is well compensated by that- you don't have to get close to immediately start attacking. Also, only figures with range are capable of counter-attacking. Add his 3 Damage and LI to the mix, and it's a first strike ability that strikes with utter impunity. Gora'din has to get close, which is hard thanks to his Speed, and is vulnerable to counter-attack. Baran, on the other hand, can get some extra licks in before he gets exposed to retaliation.
As for that Sneak Attack, sure, unless you level Baran up, he's probably never going to attack with it- but it's not useless. I can open chests with it. He may lack Speed points to move fast and open the chest in one turn, but that +2 bonus is, more often than not, good enough. ;) That's one of the nice little touches on Baran- he offers a little versatility and flexibility to your Team. And in a Dungeon, that's a very useful thing to have, even if only a little of it.
For that matter, I've rarely found the opportunity to do a Sneak Attack in Dungeons, thanks to the confined spaces of the tiles, to obstacles, and to the messy positioning of figs which is par the course in the game. Even with high-Speed and agile figs, it's just so rare. Which is why I think of SA more as a thieving tool than a combat ability.
As for breaking away, sure, he can't escape well, but as Sun Tzu pointed out, "When in desperate straights, fight." Which is the point of Baran anyway- 3 Damage is nothing to laugh at in a Dungeon.


Thank you, and mind you, I've sincerely always respected you, despite the differences in our opinions. You gotta stick up for what you believe in; I gotta stick up for mine. It's not a good thing that we step on each other's feet along the way- but we're only human, and it's often inevitable.
Truce? :(


I never said he was competitive (of course, my utmost respect goes to the guy who whups the likes of Darq and Hitash using Baran without breaking a sweat!). All I'm saying is that, with his 8" Range Attack, he IS NOT useless.

I mean this without disrespect, but I tried him today. :) Baran, Pearl and Brethan Kyle, all Level 1. I went up against Kzar Nabar, Trollkiller and Shaman Og. My opponent was the guy who, despite being new to Dungeons, overwhelmed all of us in Week 4 of the Imperial Games, and is an excellent tactician. We fought in a tightly confined Dungeon, where lining up for shots was difficult.
And Baran just rocked. Dispatching Mage Spawn was a snap. With the right tactics, Baran was unstoppable, pistol blasting away. An opportunity opened up, and though my opponent's figs were a distance away, I was able to line him up for a shot against Shaman Og- and soon, the healer was dead. Later, Kazar Nabar even went one-on-one with him. He missed, Baran countered, and Nabar was hurt. Baran followed up, the Kzar was next to dead. I dispatched him with Kyle. My opponent handed me the game.
Oh, he's not invulnerable. I lost him in the second game I played- but not easily. ;) And it was terrible fun when I clicked him to his enVenomed Berserk slot. (evil grin). Pure and simple joy.

To end this, I just want to ask anyone who has him to just give him a fair shot. That's really all I ask.
Once again, I apologize for the misunderstanding. :( Truce?

Yeah we are cool Messenger. :)

Like I said, I do not want to argue about this anymore. You do not have to apologize for anything that you have said. You have strong views on this as do I so there is no need to apologize for sticking up for your opinion. We both agree to disagree about Baran and have had a freindly and intelligent discussion about it and now we move on to the next freindly and intelligent discussion right? ;)

You and I are both big fans of Dungeons and very dedicated to the game so of course we have our own views of what is good and what isn't. But presenting differing points and strategies of Dungeons is more important than who is right and who is wrong. I am sure we both can agree on that?:cool:

Cool. :cool: Peace, then. End of argument.

I do agree with you that enjoying Dungeons is more important than about the right and wrong strategy, though for a different reason. In the end-all and be-all, what's to say which strategy or perspective is right or wrong? What works for one guy may not work for another guy. Look at the 4-member Team vs. the 3-member Team argument- there's no conclusive evidence that one kind of team is conclusively stronger than the other.

In any case, that's done. ;) Good day, darthgeep and everyone out there.

Dude this is like... way to deep an agument for baran skullcracker having range. i just dont get why baran skullcracker has venom and is it just because he has the same kind of cloak as the khamsin sniper that he has that invisibility stuff? hes a good hero for his points though no matter how confusing he is.

I was planning on selling mine, but this update has made me reconsider. I can't wait to try him out- that combo of both Range and Limited Invisibility should be fun. (evil grin).

Try Seeker Contri...

Still think he isnt that good though (Baran).

Indeed. :)

That's why I'm now also hunting for Seeker Contri. ;)