Yup. You da man. I was completely surprised by the idea that the .pdf wasn't just a scan of what's in the packs.

Another thing to consider ...

When MK first came out, there were no figures with Charge, Bound, or Invulnerability. People bought tons of extra boosters trying to find figures with those abilities. WK got lots of complaints that they lured people to buy more boosters when in reality the figures did not even exist yet. They do not want to make that mistake again.

hmmm i never heard anyone complain about that...but it may be a thing that was specific to certain people or venues.

:confused:

Having been around for a good while, I don't remember this as an issue.

Besides, it's got nothing to do with the current situation. A new player who participates in the tourney scene *will* run into the old (new...) SAs. And they'll have no clue as to what they are.

The old (new) is what gets me the most. How can *anyone* claim it's irrelevant when F/L has BRAND NEW wording for 2.0 that it's not included in the 2.0 rules??? I mean, holy smokes, how much more clear can it be that it's NOT just 'wasting space printing up old rules'? They're NEW rules, for the New Game! Where else would one find them, if not in the New Base Set rules?

:rolleyes:

I agree with Balduran I on this. If Mage Knight (2.0) really isn't intended to obsolete Mage Knight (1.0), I think the old SAs would have been included for all.

However, in sanctioned events, it's the job of the Warlords to maintain the old SA card as well as the new rules - so new players won't have to rely on the word of old players when they bring out that home-printed SAC; they can always ask the Warlord if they want to make sure it's legit.

Not the same thing. In that case there were SA that no figure had. In this case there are figure avaible with these SA they are just not in that set. So all a player has to do is ask where they can get figures with those SAs. They then can purchase booster containing those figures. We use to have people ask all the time what set mounts were in or any other piece.

I think a more noticable issue about 1.0 in 2.0 is the current warrior section here. It appears that all 1.0 figures have been removed from it. Maybe they have not and maybe they will be re added yet that to me throws up a little red flag

Is this the same card that has come in the Ver 2 Demo kits.

Are we to understand that Cursed is in fact optional? "You take an extra clik of damage cause you are cursed.

No, I have desided not to." ??

A lot of people here are assuming that a lot of MK players actually give a hoot about any of these online forums. Yeah, we all love to gab about this and that here and it helps keep us all in the know about what going on with the rules... but how many other games do you constantly check forums on? For every gamer that read these forums there are probably 10 that don't. What exactly would make those 10 players think they need to go online to download anything else. "Ooo look new Mage Knight with some new abilities - doesn't say much about my old abilities, they must all work the way they used to." Most of these type of gamers are very casual, they don't play at venues much. Say one of them decides to try a tournament and brings a bunch of old figures thinking they work the way they used to. What a shock is this going to be to him, and how embarassing will it be, when he has to be retaught the game on the fly? Think he'll come back to play?

I also thought the PDF was a scan of the card included with the 2.0 rules - I am FURIOUS that it is not. It is so frustrating trying to promote this game when decisions like this are made.

Cursed is not option that will be added to the FAQ. The SA card that comes withthe demo kit is the same one that is in the starter but that SA card does not have the 1.0 SA that were revised but yet did not make it into 2.0.

Ebonfyre has nailed it. Some people do not understand what you are saying. It is also past some peoples belief that people live without the internet nor do they have easy access to the internet.

Its easy for peopel on here to say it wont be a problem. Yeah for use here on the realms it wont be a problem or atleast as big of a problem. It was a bad idea period. Should have been liek the PDF. Past people stating it would be 10 pages long i have yet to see any type of reason why they would chose to do it this way.

So instead fo making a 10 page SA card we'll give you one in a starter that is a trifold and you have to download a 10 page SA card from the internet. On top of that to make sure that download lasts you might want to put in a few protective sleeves of lamenat it or something.

ok barrel, you are right.

your right barrel. i am lucky to be on the net, all my freinds i play with are not. they count on me to fill them in.

Isn't this why we have warlords? I know they are not perfect, but Warlords MUST have some access to the net (even if it's just through the venue) and can always download the 10 pg PDF for tournament play and just keep it at the venue. The problem is solved, new players are aware that there are other SA's out there that they don't have wording thorugh, and they can always pay the Venue for printouts. Situation solved life goes on.

For those not on the net and not playing in tournaments, it probably won't be an issue for. THey will go and enjoy the game in their own little universe oblivious to the fact that there are other rules out there. It won't matter to them. And if they do come across other players that have older 1.0 figs, then they will be exposed to the situtaton and can remedy it if they so desire. It's not the end of the world here.

Now, with all that said, I agree with the position that ALL SA's should have been included in the Starter. The only reason I purchased a starter was for the SAC and the rules. I wanted a SAC that had ALL the SA's on them in one convenient location that I could easily use for gaming. But alas, this was not ment to be. If I had known I would have to print my own copy out, I would have skipped the Starter and just spent the 20 bucks at the printers.

you're being naive or fooling yourself if you don't believe that a MAJOR point behind the new game is to obsolete old figures. Sure you can still use the old figures, but I think the game will change enough to discourage their use and eventually they will go away. I could use a slide rule if I wanted to even though a calculator is much faster and easier. At work I could still hand-write my documents and have a secretary type them complete with carbons. Of course we don't have typewriters any more and my secretary would flat out refuse to do it, but I guess I could. I fully believe that in 6 to 9 months (or however long it takes for the first 2.0 expansion to come out) if 1.0 figures are still being played in large numbers or dominating the tournament scene, we will either see yet another rules change to depower those figures further or the expansion will contain a "silver bullet" to counter the offensive figures. If I continue in this game, I don't see myself using any of the 2,000+ 1.0 figures in a year except for the occasional sake of nostalgia. Here's my cynical world-view, (I will point out that I am a Corporate/Tax Attorney, so I know a little about what I speak) Topps acquired WizKids to boost it's own sagging revenue and cash flow. I think the last few MK expansions did not live up to expectations as far as revenue stream/cash flow is concerned. The game had some problems and interest was dying, so we totally revamp the game. Great idea. But if we just change the rules and players can still use their old figures, that doesn't help our revenue. So let's try to phase out the old figures to "encourage" old players to buy the new stuff. Also, Topps has a lot of experience and capital invested in printing cards. Cards are a lot cheaper to produce than figures (what with paying those Chinese kids to paint them and all). So let's add on top of 300+ figures another 100 or so cards for the players to try to get!

I see problems with the ability cards as well. Were any of the abilities not carried over changed in the last overhaul. You know the one where the abilities were changed in the FAQ? I seriously can't remember, but it is entirely possible that even the Unlimited Abilities card doesn't have the correct text for some old abilities. Plus, I have to remember okay look at the Unlimited abilities card for Magic Enhancement, but look at the new card for Charge, etc. I doubt that the additional cost of adding another page or two to the abilities card was the real reason the old abilities got left out. The size of the card being a concern I might buy, but not the cost. I really think there is an intent to steer people away from the 1.0 figures.

I like RobRob's idea about the book with rules, etc. but I don't see that happening for several reasons:

(1) Adding big hard or soft cover books, makes the game look even more like WarHammer. The domains and relics I think is making it head that way already. Plus, a big book goes against WK's claim that it is easier to learn. If they're still even making that claim.
(2) Having a separate rule book out there would make it more "noticeable" when they decide to re-write the rules and/or abilities again. Mind you, I don't think that would stop WK from doing that, it would just make it more apparent. Then we really would have to have version numbers, a la Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 vs. 3.0.
(3) I heard that of the 23 people WizKids just laid off, most of them were writers. So there may not be any writers left to undertake such a project.

Again, just my opinions. Flame On!

I hadn't realized that new wording for old abilities would be used but not included in 2.0 starters. Can anyone point me to the link where I can download these rules? Thanks!

THe Rabbidgerbal thinks that it's a very poor idea to make a jumping off point for new people and only provided them part od the rules.

Just imagine a new kid who studies the 2.0 stuff and brings all his gear and one of the old players with the 1.0 stuff comes in and starts saying weird rules that he's never heard before, morover weird rules that he hasn't had any chance to think about and prepare for.

The Rabbidgerbal thinks putting a few more pages in the starter set really isn't that big of a deal, and it's foolish that they don't keep it complete if that is the case.

If it's all a plot by the "man" to oppress the 1.0 players, well the Rabbidgerbal will say no comment on that