I agree with _zap_ on this one a bit. Lets just get along allready. We dun need to fight. I loved wizkids forum for a very long time. Until the flaming started to errupt. So I went back into the shadows. I hate fighting here. This is not supposed to be a place where you fight. This is a place where you give ideas. Where people help each other with their newest army ideas. Where you talk about MK.

The worst think to be is defencive. To be defencive is not to change. without change you cannot adapt. If you don't adapt you die.

I learned once (in improv class) that you are supposed to build on someones idea. Not take there idea and close it. It is called blocking. Improv cannot survive with it. If you block your partner has to change to another road. If you block that they have to turn again..... Until there is no roads.

What does that have to do with MK. Take your fellow realmer. Take his/her idea (you do not have to agree on it) build on to it. Suggest something. Add something. Don't block them. That makes them mad. Then we all lose.

thank you for your time
Derek

Okay, I said I was done with General Discussion, and I've been keeping relatively quiet, but I like to respond when my name's brought up.

I feel that I have a very legitimate reason for my previous posts. I was irritated about 2.0, and vocal about not liking it when it came out. I decided to really try it, because I love Mage Knight. I continued through Dark Riders. At GenCon, which was recently (hence my recent new posts), I decided I was done during the "And the Horse You Rode In On" tournament. Oh, and the irony in the name of the tournament did not escape me. I have since posted to a handful of threads voicing my opinion. I don't understand how this is a problem, especially since I tried my best to consider other people's viewpoints, and be respectful of other realmers. As Hexian has said repeatedly, if you really are that upset about the threads, skip them. If this small handful of threads is dominating General Discussion, the quantity of threads in GD must be way down from back when I used to surf it regularly. To be honest, I don't ever go there anymore, I hit my subscribed threads and the top threads on the front page, so I wouldn't know these days.

I completely agree with razatar's statement, and I think the conversations have at least *started* within the scope of this idea. For those commenting "some people just come here to fight" - I would much rather talk about builds and such than problems, but that time has passed for me. I have just wanted to express my views and concerns recently, and they are all pertaining to MK from me, so I think they belong here.

I think this is a very insightful thing to post and apply to MKRealms. I agree with the idea here as well. I think the best example I have of this over the course of the last couple of weeks is the "Compare/Contrast 1.0 and 2.0" thread. I was really enjoying hearing the views of the pro-2.0 people, and I was enjoying the discussion. It was interrupted repeatedly, however, by <name edited before mods do it for me> making absolute statements and being unwilling to hear anyone's side but his own. I like discussing, and I don't mind disagreeing, but I hate fighting too, and that's what all the threads get reduced to, for absolutely no reason. Why can't people just admit they'll never agree - openly - and move on. I'm not trying to convert people, and I say when I can see we're not going to agree. Ask Kenntak, for example. We didn't get into a knock-down, drag-out. We just disagreed, and it was ok, because I respected his opinion, and him mine. Not "agreed with," but "respected." Is that so hard?

As for the "then we all lose" Derek, you're right. We lose intelligent debate and discourse. And we lose realmers. I think we're there, and I think we've been losing realmers for quiet some time. I'm going to head on into battle formations and see if it's as dead as it was last time I checked it. I remember when it was a hotbed of new ideas.

Dfazman, if you want to name me, that's ok. I'm a big boy and I can take as good as I give. Just one thing struck me...

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. I think most are started with good intentions, but then there are plenty you know are going to degrade into huge fights (and just as many without me as with ;)). In some cases, I'm pretty sure the person starting those threads know they'll degrade pretty quickly, as well. Anyway, with Sorcery coming out, I'm unfortunately not going to have enough time to argue with people that don't know what they're talking about nearly as much. Maybe a little bit here and there... :D

Way too much awesome stuff coming out that we need to talk about!!

I never said you didn't have a good reason. I only said you, along with everyone that has been participating in these arguments, have just been repeating themselves so the extra 5 threads aren't necessary. It's kinda hard not to repeat yourself when you're posting in 6 different threads about the same topic.

Oh man... It is BRUTAL! :D I've been in the WK scene since about February. Lot's o changes, and change can be hard...

I love unrestricted events (we have a good number of them). I actually won an event with the new-ish big Griffon. It was a HOOT!

I love reading the army discussions and I even sometimes (after a few drinks) enjoy some of the agruments.

Mage Knight, Mech Warrior, Hero Clix = crack!

Game on!

I'm going to add something here:

I really don't mind people having thier opinions on 1.0 2.0, whtaever. I think the issue is that people are making subjective opinions over factual arguements.

It like starting an argument over which is better
White Chocolate reeses PBCups or the original milk choco PBCups.

(I personally love the new white PBcups - but i'd still eat an original from time to time.)

Which is better? better is personal choice - subjective. It don't matter. but just calling out one flavor over another is just plain pointless.

I personally would like to see threads that have to with factual aruments. I would even like to see claifying question threads that ask for opinions. Like "does your preference of white or dark chocolate affect you racial bias?"

1.0 bounders cant keep up - mostly factual (corphy - som others)

1.0 uniques cant carry uniques - factual - does this let us jump onto that 2.0 is unfair? tell me why...

2.0 cavalry is more versitle - prove it

flight from 1.0 to 2.0 got nuked - tell us how you would overcome it if your so good at 1.0. But be open to what 2.0 can do too.

Don't just cop-out an arguement because you cant articulate anything else but personal preference. Thats what ruins the discussion threads....

I was going to add something to this, because I have been trying my hardest not to get into these arguements but finally feel that it's gotten out of hand. Now, after reading PreacherMans post, I can't do that. All I can say is:

Very nicely done, preacha'man! You took the words right out of my mouth.

Honestly, there are a lot of people that are participating in these arguement threads that blow me away (Particularly mrdbeau) because I have an enormous amount of respect for these people. It's slightly upsetting to me, then, when I come here and watch these overly insightful people, who have gone out of their way on countless occassions to better the community, participating in the degredation of a thread into a flame war.

In my honest opinion, I don't feel a compromise is necessary in this situation. If you feel 2.0 sucks, That's great. Live with your opinion, and don't play the game. Please don't try to talk me out of playing it, and honestly I don't want to hear why you aren't.

Sure, 2.0 has problems. Every game does (Yes, even 1.0 *Gasp!*) but there are those of us who still love the game. Honestly, I can't imagine myself NOT playing MK. I love this game, and while I think WK can do a better job with it, I don't feel that they are doing too very bad (all things considered)

Basically, If you have an opinion, voice it. As long as your opinion has been voiced, then stop talking about it. We know how you feel, and there's no need to spam(because thats basically what it is) the rest of the boards to get your "message" across.

my .02

Yay! (does his happy dance)

See what respect can do here. It adds some depth. Some conversation. Ideas and reasons.
Like preacherman said. Instead of saying 2.0 sucks because your favorite fliing peice got nuked then find out a solution for the problem. Show your solution in a crisp clean un spiteful light and people will see it. Then the next guy, who lets say doesn't like something about it. He takes that idea and instead of bashing the first guy he adds something that will make it a better concept.

I still say that my figures with flight should be able to be in formations. how would you go around doing that?

these are the questions that need to be asked.

this is what I hope you dont do:
2.0 sucks because my favorite flier got screwed!

We just have to respect each others opinions. You won't change someones opinion by insulting them. That will only make them want to keep with their idea just to spite you. You have to show them your side. If they see it is valid they may want to look into it a bit more. If they don't then they say why they don't. this way you both learn something and you may just find that there is a middle ground.

thank you
Derek

hex, It actually wasn't directed at you...
(look at my example)

but if you like the attention be my guest and claim it :p ;)



*Evil Weavil looks over at his pitchfork*
"sigh, oh well... looks like ur gonna be lonely tonight"

aside: "My pitchfork hates it when people agree with me."
:rolleyes:

... MK 2.0 sucks!





psyche!


actually its the only Wizkids game I enjoy ATM.

While extremely complicated beyond a mere suspension of disbelief, its still got some redeeming qualities as do these provocative awe inspiring discussion forums.
I feel akin with my brothers, my fellow droogs, and together we can beat old men with candy coated words or take away a young childs innocence.

This one guy in my town just decided to quit because he thinks 'blood cultists' are satanic.

I didn't realize he was such a holy roller.

So now everytime I see him, I make references to Anton Levay and talk about how cool it would be to drink warm virgin blood.

He doesn't understand why I say or do the things I do. And really, neither do I, but I'd be wasting my time if I thought about it.

Sorcery is my favorite MK set so far for many reasons


It is the most Satanic Wizkids set ever made if you think about it.
Demons, and spellbooks, and all kinds of unholy coolness.

There is a huge psychological theme of Death and unholiness. (Sorcerers casting spells from spellbooks called Demonic Codex. Dude, the name Demonic codex rules!)

Bloody Amara - Even though the stats suck, this sculpt is by far, the most demonic Wizkids figure I have ever layed eyes upon.

Oracle Daheia- its this chick possessed by an angel of Lucifer. Thats what i'm going to tell my grandma.

BLOODhawk, SOULSHREDDER (kick ###!)

All of the Ultra rare magespawn appear to be minions of the devil.

Vorgoth- Statan's right hand man, number one guy, fully equipped with Hellfire sword as he rises from the depths of He11!

Malava- Lucifers bride.

The Black Knight- once a good knight turned into a demonic Dark Lord of Destruction, the devils Leutenant. Black is the color of Shadow.

Guant- Voroths underling and servant of the devil. Red is the color of blood.

kickass

Erm... Are you a satanist skytail? You're starting to scare me a bit... :p

Still dont see why ppl think that bloody Amara sucks...."oh no...she doesnt have a 14 attack shes worthless":eek:

Sin77

My own 2 cents....

All good points and debate, which i rarely see these days due to the topic of this thread...obviously we hate seeing spam in the threads, too bad it cant just be blocked out.

anywho, Mage Knight still rocks...


CMG magazine issue 2... getting ready for an october release...

I don't think we should limit how many times someone post on any given thread(s), as long as they follow these two rules:

1) If you use the statement "__________ sucks" it must be followed IMMEDIATELY by "and this is why I think so..." and explain your OPINION

2) If you disagree with someone's OPINION and you want to say so, then your reply MUST start with "I disagree with ________ because..." and then explain why.

Everything beyond that should be good DISCUSSION.




Wait, third rule:

3) Don't take or make ANYTHING personal.

Most of us are here because this is a game we enjoy, even if it is not headed in the direction some would like it to be. And those that don't currently enjoy the game need to RESPECT those who do.


I'm done...

:)

Zap, you and I are on the same page, and I appreciate you seeing how I'd end up repeating myself with all of those threads going. At the same time, my posts tend to run longer than most, so having fresh content is even more important. ;-)

Mrdbeau, consider yourself named. LOL! As for knowing from the outset that threads will degenerate into argument, well, *I* didn't start the threads, so we can direct that at the thread starters, but are you then saying that one should water down one's threads so there won't be heated debates? I mean, we *should* be able to handle this kind of conversation in a mature fashion. And while I will agree with you that the debate may get heated with or without you, lately you have been a primary source of hostility toward whomever you are disagreeing with, frequently in a manner that is quite condescending. I don't think the realms needs the rolleyes smiley back because, despite your arguments to the contrary, it is used primarily as a tool to mock the person one is responding to, and there's enough of that here already.

As for me, the overwhelming sense I'm getting is that people want me to leave, so I will. I hope you all enjoy MK, and I hope the realms are still here in another three years. The last three have been awesome, and I'll now retreat into the Lion's Den. PM me if you wanna talk to me; I'm unsubscribing to every thread I'm subscribed to, except this one, which I'll leave open for a week or so, so it's not like I'm "hanging up" on anyone.