Zap, that is easy about Kem... lack of :wing: speed type... lack of 10+ movement... No parry counter combo... No crushing blow...

Kem is good, but his stats drop fast...

Gaunt, although very good as just a figure is medium... customized, he is amazing.

Akuda

Other then a few HUGE disagreements it's a nice review. :)

"Put a junky cheap orc next to him and you can heal every turn (once in a while healing the junky orc)"

are you smoking crack?!?! hehehe

anyway, decent review, though I think you missed out on the effects of some sub-faction abilities and what they will mean, also, any analysis of the slotted nons needs to include the best possible relic combos for them...

you guys did agree with one analysis that I have formed, and that is that most of the LE figures are absolute garbage!

I think you were way off on Gaunt also...with Inferno and Magestone Bracers and Cloak of Dervish he/it will be an absolute beast!!! Or just as a harrasser supproting a big fattie, really annoying

The :boot: instead of :wing: could really be seen either way. It lets him use a bunch of great relics that chroma can't use.
Kem's attack is higher down the dial and is never lower then chorma's. Kem's damage is way higher then chroma's down the dial and is also never lower then Chroma's. Chroma's defense is 1 higher then kem's on the first click, otherwise they are the same there. Kem has more clicks of Parry, Chroma has more clicks of Counterattack. Chroma has much higher speed the first half, Kem has slightly higher speed the second half. Kem has toughness beginning 1 click down(immune to auto damage), Chroma has late dial dodge.
Chroma has mid dial Crushing Blow, Kem has front dial ram. Chroma has a higher front arc although in most cases 270 is overkill and 180 is fine. Chroma has high defense with Spell Resistance, Kem is Magic Immune. Before socery i'd say chroma is better with the spell resist since she can use shield relics, but a lot of :wand: in sorcery has pierce and there is a 2 page enhancement that gives pierce so it isn't as useful. Kem has a small ranged attack(which isn't that useful, but it's better then none). Kem also has the Minions of the Apoc subfaction which is a great on him because enemies can't use gang up on him to raise their attack.


They seem pretty even to me. Especially considering Kem is 12 less points then Chroma.


Yeah, I guess... but mean ol' mrd only had bad things to say about poor gaunt. Like he only has 6 clicks of life(he has 8), he has a low defense of 17(which is the normal amount for 70ish point figures), he's very weak against auto damage(he's not any weaker then all the other figures without toughness. At least he doesn't lose his powers and his stats only get higher) and that range will chew him up(it'll have to be a bounder because he can double time 16" which also has a good chance of reaching even a bounder). He doesn't even mention how stable his dial is. He doesn't lose his abilities and his attack and damage take 5 clicks to drop. Or that he can be summoned back by anyone 76 or more points wielding a scroll of invoc. He gave him a good ranking though which slightly confuses me after he only said bad things about him.
I think Mrd just has something against zerglings...
:p

I agree with Zap, originally I thought Gaunt was an alright piece for large point games and thats all he would be without relics. But if you throw inferno and cloak of vipers on him you are doing three autodamage a turn. Thats ridiculous.

Alrighty... a few comments...

SupaMOJO - Yeah, duh... actually, someone pointed that out in the clan and I totally forgot to change it... oh well, I'll go fix it right now, as it should say 'crushing blow/charge' or whatever...

Folds - I have to mostly agree with Zap. A lot of the sets already have cheap filler from the base set and DR. I think most of the factions got just what they needed in this set, and that was strong non-uniques in the 30-60 point range. I think pretty much every single faction (even Apoc) got at least one unique that is just awesome.

Zap - Kem has a few problems which hurt him, many of which Akuda pointed out. Speed is probably the biggest problem on Kem. Not to mention he can be tied up relatively easily, and he really needs a relic to be effective. I would take Throne Monk + Magestone Bracers over Kem probably just about anytime. Kem gets chewed up by any non-wand range, and any melee figure with a speed faster than 9" will get first shot on him without the benefits of any toughness. Overall, Kem isn't a bad figure at all, but I'd still take Chroma with a relic over Kem with a relic.

jgklaw - Talk to Veloxiraptor about the Orc comment... that was his part of the review (and sorry I didn't mention you in the opening credits... :o ). I would have liked to have included some talk about relics with all of the slotted nons, but that would have made the review so much longer it isn't even funny. Maybe if you ask Gunmix or some other DHC guys real nicely, they'll put together a review just of the new slotted nons and how they do with what relics... just maybe. :p Some of the subfaction abilities won't see much use simply because out of the set, only one or two figures can even use them! Like Dragon Mystics, for example. Gaunt with Inferno, Magestone Bracers, and Cloak of the Dervish would be a huge point sink and not even very effective, IMO. He can still get easily tied up and only 1 damage a turn will be done to the harasser. I'll take that to tie up 150 points or set up an attack on him by my big piece or by a group of figures. As a 'support' figure, who is he going to be supporting? If you've got a 100+ point unique for Gaunt to support, you've already got two figures at 200 points, one of which can be tied up so easily it isn't funny.

EDIT to Zap - I gave him a good rating because he is a good figure. His strengths are quite obvious, but I thought maybe his weaknesses weren't so much. And he only gets stronger for ONE click... I still think autodamage will eat him up. And if you throw Inferno and Magestone Bracers on just about any figure, it will be good...

Hey man, that "junky orc" quote didn't come from me! I wrote the LE reviews (uh, sort of), and jgklaw thinks I done did good. ;)

Whoops... must have been Zap then... *shrug*

Who cares, orcs aren't good for much beyond dieing a horrible death to give the Dracs time to slaughter everyone. ;)

I guess the lion and the DHC definitions of "Filler" are different(no, that is by no means a flame!! I'm just pointing out that zap and mrd are dhc, and I"m a lion).

Anyway when I say "Filler" I mean things like the Elf-at-Arms is "Filler", not a **High Elven Warrior. I just want some older-styled stuff with no bells or whistles, just pure stats. The only thing that's good filler in 2.0 is really Zombie Centaurs, and to a much, much lesser extent, Empire Veterans. Even with those two, they still have little tricks that make them more than just solid warriors(ZC are incredibly fast and EV's have crushing blow, 17 points to only need a nine to hit kossak for 2? Yeah, I'll take some of that please!)

Yes, I will agree that overall the midrange figures are really well-received. They make me feel very confident in a strong swiss archtype with figures like the ***Noble Initiate for cheap, strong range support and other stuff like that, it does seem pretty solid.

It's nice to get an overall feel like this for a set everytime, and from one person from a different clan, I can say that it is appreciated on the realms.

I agree with Folds that the EL is in dire need of staple swarm figures like the E@A and Rivvenguard, especially now that we finally recieved a 2.0 12" FM (although it is 51pts.).

On another note, you failed to mention how completely terrible Magud Alment Lan is in close combat.. That, along with the fact that he can't keep harassers off himself by soaring, is the main reason I don't consider him the best unique in the set.

Anyway, you'll did a good job in my temporary period of inactivity. A few of the corrections made in the DHC forum never got fixed (like the toughness/invuln OoR copy mistake), but those are pretty minor.

Awww... so glad to know we can get along for a few days without you, Outlaw! I mean, I know we're a bunch of morons, but we make do. ;)

I don't think Alment-Lan is the best unique out of the set, either, but I would have a hard time saying which one is. Lan, Stormbringer, Daheia, even Pathis and Kenaz are pretty sweet. Virtually all of the uniques have their uses in this set, except the DC figures... they're terrible. Sorry guys...

Trust me, I'd like to get some 2.0 E@A as much as the next guy, but I just don't think the selection is really terrible right now.

I'd think most of those weaknesses would apply to chroma too. Why is Chroma so much more immune to harrassment and bow attacks then Kem?

They'd have to out double time gaunt and manage to get around his rear so I believe they'd need a 9 speed to do that provided gaunt around 16" from them. If they did manage to base him in the back, they'd take 1 from inferno, 1 from shake off, and then 3 more on the next turn. I wouldn't use gaunt as a support piece though. I'd use him as my main threat. The uber venom Gaunt combo isn't so easily tied up though. I'd say it's more resistant to harassing then most figures do to the fact that you don't have to give him in action to deal his damage. If you tie him up he can just break away and go base an enemy.

OK, so you do think he's good? Your review made him sound like one of the worst figures ever made. I see now that you just figured you didn't need to go into what he was good for...


Folds: Oh, I see what you mean by filler now. You're right, the AE doesn't have any and the EL really doesn't either. The **Frost Minions are decent fillers of that sort although a little too expensive.

Well, I guess DC's strength has always been their subfaction abilities and their commons. The only unique worth fielding(and she is very cheezy) is Tazia. Gaunt is average alone, superb with relics and items. I think Kem deserved a higher ranking though.

No kidding. I am quietly waiting for the return of the HEG, I know he's a unique and all but what a great no-frills piece. I have often wondered what the dial would look like of a pure #'s, no SA's melee unit at about 120-140 points. My guess is that the stas would be through the roof.

Hey Dracs,

Great reviews!

I agree with most and feel that this is a very accurate way to introduce players to what they should expect in the coming months.

I think some folks are being a little hard on some of your judgments but thats expected, right? ;)

Gaunt isn't that amazing. I can't get over how a few posters (Jgclaw,ChiChiban,Braden in general) contest that he's so great. I've said it before and I'll say it again. a 150 point auto damage harrasser is not a good investment. For reasons I'll illustrate again, (wow broken records!)

For 32 points less, you could use the standard High Elven disciple and make the EXACT type of figure thats much more stable in solidarity.

For one, The **High Elven Disciple has a 270 degree arc compared to Gaunts 180 degree arc. We don't need to do the math on that one, boys.

The High Elven Disciple Free Spins! I own Malava and Gaunt (really lucky pulls). I've tried Gaunt decked out with Inferno,Cloak of Vipers, and Magestone Bracers. I've tried Gaunt with Just Inferno and Magestone Bracers.
I've played 3 games with competitive figures using both **High elven Disciple in one army and Gaunt in the other with the same relics. High elven Disciple won all 3. Without a contest.

The ** High elven Disciple has Sweep with that 270 degree arc and the 11 attack with the same damage as Gaunt.

What hurts Gaunt is lack of Free spins. Even if Gaunt is the aggressor, the figure still runs into major problems against being attacked in the back arc with little or nothing to do about in terms of prevention.

Venom doesn't even work whe a Figure is in Gaunts back arc so why would an opponent willingly sink 30 points into an item that will only be used in a one sided scenario. Now the same goes for the Venom Gaunt already has.

Now don't get me wrong , Gaunt is a great support figure BY HIMSELF. No relics, no items, nothing.
The best way to play Gaunt is as a bodyguard Harrasser for your brick/Big Bounder. Using Like, Daheia to mindtap Gaunt's venom. Throw a Scroll of Invocation on Daheia and have some fun.

Thats the best way to use Gaunt.
As a support figure.He deals enough auto damage by himself. Theres no sense spending 150 points or 120 on Gaunt or High Elven Disciple to make them big auto damage figures.

1) All those points spent on Gaunt is useless VS any Soaring Big Bounder. Useless against Soaring in general. Soaring figures could easily just go after the remaining 150 points of support and ignore Gaunt completely. (I've faced this problem in my buils with a relic heavy Gaunt) Gaunt is by no means a Chroma /Varatrix type of fighter and one should NEVER commit to so many points in a figure such as Gaunt.

2) Gaunt becomes one dimensional once you throw a bunch of Auto damage relics on him (in terms of costing 150 points). His function becomes entirely that of dealing autodamge and harrasment with a touch of objective dominance.

3) Gaunt has no healing capabilities so he becomes that much more susceptible to autodamage himself.

4) Gaunt has to become Magic Immune against the many new threats of Daheia, Stormbringer, and Magus Alment Lan.
In addition to Vithzerai. Gaunt with Inferno and Magestone Bracers isn't enough to thwart these new Uber bounders. Stormbringer pierces right through Spell Resistance. Needing a what 5 or 6 for 5 damage? Daheia just copies Pierce and does the same thing. I wont mention all the awesome :wand: types for less than 50 points in Sorcery that have Pierce. Magestone Bracers isn't enough anymore to protect against this caliber of :wand: types.

I love Gaunt and use him often as a Big Bounder's BG. I throw the Scroll of Invocation on the Big Bounder and have a good time wreaking havoc and disturbing the peace, almost recklessly. Because you get him back so easily. Usually for less than 200 points. Take for Instance Daheia with Scroll and Gaunt. Thats only 204 points.

IMO, that is how you use Gaunt. In MWrealms we chat about scrubkiller armies on Wills thread. And thats exactly what a tricked out Gaunt is. Simply a scrubkiller. While good, a tricked out Gaunt has almost nothing on the rest of the field for 150 points. So sure, maybe you can win against the scrubs at your venue, but theres a time when you have to be real for a moment and think about what the tricked out Gaunt doesn't do. Which far outweighs what he can.

Gaunt is, barnone, an amaxing figure, but in the competitive field of 5 figure armies, a tricked out Gaunt is nothing more than a venerable pincushion. Whether you like it or not.

Now Gaunt by himself, with no relics, no items, nothing, Is a threat to be reckoned with and worthy of the competitive field.
Because, to put in simply, you have 224 more points to work with.


Now we can bicker and bout like children all day but the facts do speak for themselves. Thats what logic and reason are for. Allow someone else to make thier own judgements and decide on thier own without fools like myself spoon feeding them along the way with candy coated words and fancy rhetoric.


Now...
This is just according to my play style and it is just my opinion
I'm not trying to take anything from you fine fellows... er dracs.

I agree with all the reviews except for 1.
I don't think Tythania Stormbringer is as deserving of 4.5 stars. My reason is because she lacks :mi: and is :wand: herself which makes her very vulnerable to other :mi: types.
And the fact that Bound comes so far down the dial. Face it, Piercing Mages (ignore Invuln) will run rampant in the future meta. Look at the ones reviewed on this thread. Not to mention Big Bounders like Rava that already dominate. Although having no :mi: can also be a blessing because Stormbringer can wield other relics like Inferno or Magestone Shield. Still though (according to my playstyle) Stormbringer just doesn't compare to Magus Alment Lan and Daheia in the new set. In many ways, thats perfectly reasonable because she doesn't play the same, she's a force to be reckoned with on her own accord. (especially if you can fit Spirit Armor/Mistral in a build with her!)

She is very powerful though. I would change Daheia to 4.5 and Stormbringer to 4.

Theres just so much untapped potential with Mindtap :cool:

Take for instance: Daheia with Shadowplate of the Realms/Wand of Fencing/Magestone Bracers and a cheap MS from Dragons Gate with Sneak Attack.


Thanks for the reiew, guys! It was great!