Well retirement is a nice way to say, "We banned 600 figures."

the Politically Correct term for this is RESTRICT not BAN...

the FAQ is good but with the imense task of lugging the FAQ arround is really getting rediculous...please unify everything under one rulebook (can anyone say "pocket sized"?)...and please please please make it the R & D Departments target goal to make the FAQ smaller every expansion...Wizkids will get props for a FAQ less expansion (fat chance)...we understand that there is human error involved...solution, slowdown the releases...keep play testing until you have a near perfect set (wishful thinking)...

Well, just to point out, that Sorcery has had exactly TWO "changes" in the FAQ:

- Figure Correction for Circle of Blood - all it did was say that there should be an "OR" between the page counts (which is pretty obvious anyway).

- Rule Clarification for Bedlam - just emphasized that the "borrowed" value must come from a figure on the battlefield.


The rest of the FAQ that is Sorcery related is Q&A stuff, and I would propose that no matter what you do to try and limit it, there will always be a good amount of this. Clarifications for how things work is going to happen, no matter how clearly one words the text. Unless each card were to have it's own little "rulebook" (which would be less than ideal), there will always be questions regarding interactions and intent.


So anyway, my point of this was that Sorcery, in my opinion, did a VERY good job at keeping corrections and rules clarifications to a minimum, and the most we've seen is just regarding specific situations for spells, etc.

I agree, the less "correction" the better, but I don't think it's really possible to eliminate the Q&A's that are needed. Many of the Q&A's in the FAQ really don't "need" to be there, but are included to make it very clear what the intent of something is, and to make sure that the situations are being ruled correctly.


anyway, that's my soapbox for the day :)

Sigma...

Q&A's should belong to a FAQ.

Errors should belong to an errata....

Errors in dials, could be do to misprinting, but i'm not give printed dials corrected?

Just a side note...
Is anyone of WK in China to check the real manufactoring of the pieces? Is there any Quality Control?

armyc: yes retire is a good way to say that, but if they didn't most of the old unique would get used less and less as the power level of newer pieces gets higher and higher. they were going to disappear sooner or later, this just sped things up.

(and no, i didn't like the retiring, i would prefer to be working with storm golems and the such, instead of golem familars and such, poor atlanteans.)

rmachado - The reason they are in the same document is partly due to concerns mentioned here - having the info in ONE document rather than spread out over several makes for far less paperwork. Each has their own section, and can be printed separately if needed :)

In fact, that is why the Mage Knight Tournament Rules are all in one document now, instead of being a separate document for each type of tournament :) Consolidation.

And correct, there are no printed dial corrections. I don't really have any inside knowledge, but I don't think there will be any, though.

As for the QA in China, I really don't know. However, I suspect that ensuring the QA is part of the reason that Sorcery was delayed for its release - to make sure it was right. And in my opinion, it has shown :) How they do the QA, I don't know, but I'm sure it's there.

The ideal example of this, in my mind, is the "correction" adding markers to the MDW and Titan figures.

I'm all for banning. Why, you ask? Well, as the unruly mob comes down upon me, imagine this scenerio:

My girlfriend and I are playing a game of Mage Knight. She's just getting into the game, and I've handed her a special abilities card and the base rules to learn how to play. She's gone ahead and picked out all of her pieces herself, put relics on them, and come up with her idea of a good army.

She happily places her army down, I look at it, and it's a Storm Maul army. Or at least it would have been several months ago. "Um, hon..." I start, trying to not crush the spirit of the game in her, "they changed that Storm Maul, it doesn't do 2 damage to anything on the board anymore."

"But it says it does." She starts, "Where does it say it doesn't?" I eye my binder full of changes, I, a warlord who has been playing the game since the beginning understand, but how do you explain to a new player that the pieces they just picked out, for the game that you say is easier than other war games because everything is on the dial and cards right there in front of you... well, isn't.

This example hasn't really happened, but it definately could. For a game that preaches that everything is on the dials in front of you and you don't need to go looking up things in books, there sure is a lot of corrections. And sure, some corrections are needed. I can understand a clarification, Karrudan's Bow, Spirit Armor, adding the different symbols to the titans. But flat out changes, wrong special abilities, missing special abilities, complete rewording of how relics work, just ban the piece, or live with the way it was made.

K-Bow was not unbalanced. It was simply chaotic, problematic, and bad for gameplay. Storm Maul, and Spirit Armor were unbalanced IMHO.

K-bow was unbalancing. Lately the kids I warlord for have been wanting to do multiplayer games. Every time one of the kids tries to sneak in a Karrudan's bow so that he has this explosion he can do with everything around it.

Every game we tell him he can play it, but he doesn't get the atomic-bomb effect of it. He usually plays it on someone like Tazia. Even without the A-bomb aspect of it, K-bow is really powerful. Upping damage is a very costly thing for relics and items in general. Look at Bracers of the Giant, for 34 IIRC points, you get +1 damage and crushing blow. Or for four points cheaper you can get +2 range damage and +2 range attack. It's a huge bargain even WITHOUT explosions happening, especially on a piece like Tazia or anything else with low range damage.

Remember, WK originally though of the 12 inch explosion as a penalty of sorts to bring the cost down. Obviously they didn't think that part of it could be used offensively. Once players figured it out, it was really really undercosted and when played correctly could decimate anything, even the best of armies.

Sorry, my hate of the K-bow just knows no bounds.:mad:

I agree that the K-bow needed the fix. If someone wanted it to explode, there wasn't much you could do besides run or capture it... and with Sanguine, you couldn't even do that without soaring figs. For 78 points you got a walking bomb that could push itself to death and drop 4 damage on a 24" circle. Or you could give it to Blackguard and have him jump off a pegasus at soaring. More expensive, but still just as silly.

At least now it's become a deterrant rather than a guaranteed 4 dmg for everyone.

But Video, how is it any different if your girlfriend got her Storm Maul army all set up and you break the news to her that the card has been banned?

As for K-bow, I do think it is undercosted. For 30 points you get too much compared to other relics like Assasin and Dragonstar which are more points. It is hard not to choose K-bow because of the 4 ranged damage and +2 to the attack that it provides. Unfortunately, because of K-bow you never see relics like Assassin, Dragonstar, Enchanted Fuser Rifle, etc.

so, here's a thought...Tazia is on a soaring mount...some fool kills the mount...Tazia can't fly, fall to the ground and dies...K-BOWmmm? or not?

she wasn't killed by an opposing warrior...she was killed by her lack of the ability to grow wings the instant her mount dies...so no K-BOWmmm...

Actually, the rulings have all basically said that if the death of the K-Bow wielder (or Spirit Armor) have come from a figure, even indirectly, that it triggers that ability. It's things like domains, special rules or suicides that don't trigger Spirit Armor.

Easy answer for me, it wouldn't be in my playable pieces then :p

For somebody else, I think it's easier to explain that it's too powerful and can't be used rather then setting down a giant FAQ in front of them saying what it does now.