I'll point you toward the DHII. Same guns, same speed, better cargo (even with the drawback), lower cost. The ability's cute, but I wouldn't pay for it.

Dude don't choose which ship is a better choice. Everyone has different ideas on what makes a good, and have thier own reasons for playing them. He might think the 3 less points and better guns outweight the sea Nymph's speed! Don't choose which ship is better for him, give your opinion, then stop there.

I'm not choosing which ship is better for him. I'm disputing his claim that the Eagle's a better ship, because it isn't. It's not an awful ship (though the DHII is flatly superior), but the Nymph will leave it in her dust every time. Speed kills in this game, and when you have the guns to back it up that's pretty much all that matters.

Again, I'm not telling him not to like the Eagle. But if he says it's better than a ship that's clearly superior I'm gonna cry foul.

Well, from my Pirate/English fleet...

It might be cliché by now, but I do love my H.M.S. Titan.

But, I play the H.M.S. London, and my H.M.S. Lord Algernon a good bit. I'm of the opinion that english players underrate the Lord Algernon. I'm also a big fan of the H.M.S. Leicester. My next game I want to use the H.M.S. Lord Lineton and H.M.S. Sultan. I love the schooners.

With the pirates, I'm fond of the Shadow, Harbinger, Raven's Neck, Duke and Raven.

My big favorite of all would have to be the pirate Fancy. Once again, a terribly underrated ship.

Yeah, but too him, that ship might be better to him becuase of the way he plays. To you speed might seem like everything to you, but to him it might be saving points. That should really not be directed to just you but everyone as well, give a suggestion on which ship you like, but don't claim it is better. It might be in your eyes but not in thiers.

Indeed, one mans trash is another mans wealth. The DH II, Eagle and the Nymph are all great ships to be sure and worthy of carrying a flag. So to each his own.

<shrug> Then they're wrong. This isn't really a subjective issue; a ship isn't good just because someone happens to like it. Rather, it's good if (and only if) it performs well in the game. If other ships outperform it, it's a substandard ship.

But hey, prove me wrong. Show me a build where the Eagle would outperform the Sea Nymph, and I'll concede the point. Until you manage that you're just saying "I like the Eagle better, so therefore it's a better ship", and that isn't a compelling argument.

Huntsmen.... Listen to me. I started this post and thus know the reason why it is called "Favorite Flagship?" not "Most Beardy Ship" or "Greatest Pirate Ship" ;-) The man likes what he likes and that it the essence of this post man. So I take it your fave is the Eagle? Cool thats really all I need to hear. Savy?

Nah. My fave's El Acorazado (though the Dover takes a close second).

Well consider this. The London with Blake,myngs, helmsman, captain whatever combination. Adding one of these to the London makes it 10 x's as dangerous....S+S+S speed move and shoot with broadsides? Or even S+S+S speed, the chance for same action twice and move and shoot? add brother virgil to add the captain of your choice along with jonah...the possibilities are endless. I like to use Titan, London, and my LE London in a 60 pt game. Now with fruit gunboats can really shine. We are going to see a lot more gunboat fleets you wait and see :)

This London woud make my Mermaids Event very happy! You mention mcuh crew which means it will sit for a very long time admiring her beauty. Fruit, Explosives and the Mermaid event will make swarm fleets really shine.

Now that I have seen fruit, I think the Rover and the Mermaid are my favorite ships

Conceited much?

Yes, in fact it IS a subjective issue. For it to be objective, you would have to show observable proof in all cases that ship X will perform in a more favorable way than ship Y. If at any case ship Y can defeat ship X, then the objective point is false, and it becomes a subjective issue.

You need to study the difference between opinion and fact. I watched this happen over and over playing Mechwarrior: DA. Claims abounded Mech B was useless, or that Mech A was undefeatible. This is, naturally, complete and utter nonesence.

Opinions are by their definition neither correct nor incorrect. It is a preference. You can argue which opinion is "better", but without any scale of accuracy, discussions of opinion are doomed to the realm of subjectivity.

There is a reason dice are used to play games like this. It's called chance.

Nope. I just recognize the difference between liking a ship and recognizing its value.

Again, nope. By your logic, the La Repulsa is a perfectly valid ship if it can manage to be useful even once, and that simply isn't true. Evaluating a ship's worth is all about abilities, point costs, and the law of averages, and all of those say the Nymph has a leg up on the Eagle. That isn't a matter of opinion -- that's just how the game works.

The basic question is this: is it worth 2 points, a point of cargo, and -1 to two guns to gain +S speed, the Oarsman ability, and no specific vulnerability to the Spanish? Given the point structure of the game, the answer to that question is an unqualified "yes." Opinion just doesn't enter into it.

Well, if there is such empirical evidence, I would like to see it highlighted and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt with equations befitting those who've graduated with anything nearly approaching a math degree.

I've run calculations, rudimentary to be sure, but accurate enough for an afternoon project, and although they take into account the average firepower and percentages, they can't reproduce every scenario, including blockades, pincer formations, etc.

I don't honestly care who's right or what ship is better, since I don't have either of the ships in question and play for the pirate soul that beats in my chest, rather than the ubernerd that drives the general malaise of the modern youth, but I do love a good pirate debate all the same. In the future, more yaaarghs and aye mateys would be appreciated.

I will come up with a Eagle build that uses the strengths of it. However you are just going to say, you could use the Sea Nymph to do this and this better becuase you only see certian ships as playable. To you if one ship has a few things to it's advantage and another has others the ship that fits your style of play is the only one you will even consider using. In your mind other ships are worthless if they don't fit your play stlye. However in another player's mind they might see the other ship as better becuase it has advantages that fit thier play style. Mabye you should consider that different people look for different things in ships and the things you look for are not the only thing that matters.