Dont bother... this argument is one of the stupidest things i have ever heard. Everyone arguing it has alot of time on there hands or are is extreamly obsessive.

Kerensky can be interpreted in like 50 differnt ways... just accept that wizkids created her from when she was a merc... and as a merc she would have hired out to anyone even JF, she did not know that they would kill her in the future, if she did she would not have been killed. And all the people wanting her to have free recruit to CW are just CW players who want a free recruit. Just face it she is a merc undercover... so she would charge everyone to maintain that cover (asumming the clans were even in the IS at that time...)

From what I understand:
Natasha Kerensky was the leader of the Wolfs Dragoons, a Mercenary unit that was sent to the Inner Sphere by Clan Wolf to spy on them for the Crusaders and their invasion.

The Crusaders were the Clans that wanted to invade IS, believing it to be the will of General Aleksandr Kerensky that they returned and took control to unite the IS. The other side was the Wardens, those who believed General Kerensky's wish was to return peacefully and re-unite the IS through helping them. Unlike most other Clans, Clan Wolf was half Crusaders and half Warden.

So, Wolfs Dragoons were sent into the IS and worked as Mercenaries for a time, working for one House, then another, with skill and tactics that the IS have never seen before. But instead of just spying on the IS, they ended up helping them instead (more aligned with the Wardens ideals.)

They eventually were recalled, Natasha become Clan Wolf again, and was given the Daishi Widowmaker. She eventually died in battle fighting Clan Jade Falcon.

The issue people some people seem to have:
The Natasha Kerensky that is being made is a slight blend of her history, the pilot sounds like its from the era she was working as a Mercenary between Houses, helping/spying.

One side, lets call them the Crusaders, wants to have her be CW or be able to recruit her for free. And no recruit to CJF.

The otherside, lets call them the Wardens, thinks she is fine the way she is.

The Crusaders points are that she was *really* CW, and working for CW as spies. And that she died fighting CJF.

The Wardens points are that it reflects her time a Mercenary, or she spent a lot of time as a Mercenary.

Personally, since she was Warden, why would she want to work with the current CW in game, if they are Crusaders? The card reflects "her" from the perspective of IS. I think it reflects her personality, the "spirit" of her character then if she was made to have an affinity towards CW. Plus it makes the piece more accessible to everyone, and stays relatively true to the character.

The Crusaders of the argument want her to be reflective of just her final image, whereas the Wardens of the argument can see that the piece embodies more than just her final moments in life.

Natasha was the most famous member and leader of a lance within the Wolf Dragoons. She lead the Black Widow's and was lover to the leader. Memory is foggy here. Was it Jamie Wolf that lead the Wolf Dragoon's?

Anyway, I'm saddened that we won't see more historical figures. Was kind of hoping for a historical AP. Maybe like the Stiener/Davion wedding party (hey an Atlas was given away and lots of big wigs were there..).
*sigh* I do hope this means WK will redo some older pre-AOD pilots instead...

okay my last post on this subject.

With any RolePlaying Game that encompases a book or series, where there is growth required for plot development, there are many different points where a "character" for role playing can be done.

to state that there can only be stats for only one incarnation of the subject is sort of ludicrous and limits the ability of a player to role play. And we all hate limitations don't we?

That would be akin to saying..

Star Wars Roleplayers can only play Luke Skywalker in full Jedi Mode. (okay not a good example) but obviously he has a significant change so you can play him at various levels of "jedi goodness" although apparently in one book he goes over to the dark side for a while, so perhaps a variant character could be made.

Or in Mechwarrior..
Saying that Mason Dunne could only be done as a free recruit to Republice, because we KNOW that he's a ghost knight and that of course he recruits to the republic for free and that even though he's playing a merc, he's really a republic person blah blah. So what.. Perhaps I want to play him when he's a merc, and he has different stats, and in my view of my Mason Dunne from the book he's planning a traitorous act and that version would never work for the republic... could you not see a pilot card with Mason Dunne on it that has "unrecruitable" for republic?

But the closest thing that I can think of is this (Sorry spoilers ahead for those of you haven't finished Harry potter)

Can you Imagine Rabid Potter Fans saying NO you cannot print a Severus Snape card like that because

Severus Snape MUST be free recruit to Order of the PHoenix, because HE WAS SENT ON A MISSION BY DUMBLEDORE. Now if you can't understand that He was really NOT a death Eater and were undercover for the ORDER OF THE PHOENIX SPYING on the death eaters than you prove my point that blah blah.
Come on why would Severus Snape ever work for Voldemort, the VoleClanFalcons Killed HIm, why would he ever work for them?

Now how much sense does that make???

Wizkids have a right to pick a point in the history of a character to make that character that way. This version lets MORE people play this card, isn't that what we want?

Guess what else? Wizkids has long had a policy of reprinting popular people, i.e. jonah levin, bounty hunter, etc etc.. Maybe if you guys had not been so rabid, perhaps the next reprint of Kerensky could have been in all her "glory" but I guess now we'll never find out.

I sort of understand your piont MT, like what WK has already done with A.Kerensky and J.Pejiko. Alas theres no piont to this anymore, .................................................................................................... ...........................

So, the WK yes-men are upset because those of us with half a brain saw through WK's laziness and lousy design and called them on it and so instead of fixing it or taking the time to design proper pieces in the future, they throw in the towel. Figures. This entire debacle has been a failure of WK, not the fanbase or those who support the game.

The thing that many of you DO NOT UNDERSTAND, and have never understood, is that this game is liked by players for various reasons and on different levels. For some of you, all it is is plastic army men with stats and you could care less about anything else. Fine, I get it, you'd play a Klingon pilot card if WK made one and love it. Fine. The characters don't mean anything to you, it's the game stats that matter most. Fine, I get it. But the other side of the coin is, there are those of us who like the fluff, who it matters to, who value the "history" of the thing, and who only want justice done to the "historical" pilots they came out with, not have them be lazy cop-outs, as was done with Natasha and Kai. And that is a point of view that so many of the plastic army men and wk yes-men crowd do not understand.

Am I upset that WK threw in the towel, yep. It just means more lazy, lousy, poorly-designed units in the future with names drawn from rock bands or tv shows or family pets. Who cares. The yes-men crowd has won.

Chris

I think it would be really nice if we got new units.

as in, any at all, unlike what we get now.

though, if I have to comment on historical units, I think they were a bad call to begin with. I'm not sure who thought it was a good idea. A best case senario is units head and shoulders better than any others representing the best pilots of all time, with prices so high as to be unplayable. What we got were blow average to lame pilots who were nearly unplayable.

I'm surprised anybody was OK with it to start with.

My beef is with the continued existance of mechwarrior at all- either get on with it and hype up your next big thing, or just tell us you have had enough. I'm tired of waiting to be disapointed again.

just do something.

No one would be up in arms if WK had either

1. Made the merc Natasha have a warhammer.

or

2. Made the Daishi Natasha either be CW or have 0 recruit to CW.

They are not making historical units anymore? Good. About time they stopped trying to look for some lazy gimmick to sell their product and got back to making units for the MECHWARRIOR time line.

I mean all the effort put toward a historical piece that will never measure up to fan expectations, and they put Julian Davion in an enforcer, or put out a lance of mechs for House Liao that never appear in any books except for the coverof a book without them in it, or any other lame lazy idea WK has foisted onto its consumers.

I know that WK employees put alot of time into their game but seriously they should try and give their consumers the most accurate game pieces possible. Not waste time on units from another game that were introduced 20 years ago.

How about WK further develops the game they are trying to sell me rather than get me hooked on some average units that have a name I recognize from another game on it.

In fact how about WK stop putting themselves, members from some obscure band, people that are 80 years dead in another game, and just about every other bit of nonsense they can think of in the game. Then maybe they can work on the characters, story, and units that are coming out for us soon. So that one day we may have a real balanced wargame. Instead of the propped up gimmicky plastic toys with the names of our favorite WK employees stapled onto it.

Ok already folks. WK didn't do anything wrong. Yes they tried to make things for us CBT fan base to appreciate the nods towards the characters from yesteryear we love (yes I'm a FANboy and huge CBT fan from old!) ,however with that they did try to make things easy for new people to enjoy who really aren't into the fluff or history ,but want a cool collectable game of mechs blowing each other up. With that they are doing fine. fluff is still fiction and just adds a spice to the game. If it's wrong most of us will get a bit upset at the timeline gtting tweaked or misinterpeted, but usually alot of us can get over with it and still enjoy the game for what it is. As far as little quips about pilots from some 80's band and stuff ,it is just a little humor that is like Easter Eggs in various video games. It's just a game ,it is all fictional ,and things can be adjusted anyone see fit with "home rules". If they want to have fun with the game while making it ,I think thats cool. Also is anyone complaning that they made pilots based on world and national champions? What's the big deal if they make characters designed after anyone even staff members,I think it's cool ,and it gives alot of us a cool look at who the real good gamers and staff are (or where?:)). anyway I'm done and i'm happy with what they,ve done mistakes or not.GAME ON!!!

What Blanner said!

Ohh, almost forgot ..HEY WIZKIDS WERES MY PILOT CARD!!!!:laugh: (J/K)

There have been various times in my MW "career" that things have dipped down, when it seems hard to find players or a venue to play at. There have also been times when things dropped because of a WizKids' decision - such as retirement. I'm sorry to hear that you are (apparently) in such a low right now.

But right now, there are two active venues within easy driving distance of my house. One has a number of new players. We are working on a "teaching game" tournament for them. They are excited about the game and getting into it now (in spite of Kerensky's lack of a 0 recruit to Clan Wolf). Their excitement is bleeding onto the more experienced people - we are getting more into MW than ever before ourselves.

So take hope - things do change in cycles. I remember the summer of 2004, when the local venues had 0 players attending around here. There was no one to pair up against! And now, a regular crowd of 8-12 players. As you said, we should be more worried about getting new players into the game, than about Kerensky shilling out 8 points to rejoin Clan Wolf, if only for one battle.

*glances at thread*

argument this, argument that

*fetches can of gasoline*

more agument this, more argument that

*douses mechwarrior collecton*

yet more argument this, yet more argument that

*pulls out Zippo, lights said Zippo*

this whole sorry excuse for a thread makes me wanna do ...this.

*tosses lit Zippo on gasoline doused mechwarrior collection*

burn baby burn. ... off to pewter and lead figures i go, where the fans are at least something resembling reasonable, and people don't get into heated arguments over their pet pilot being this that or the dozen other things that the company producing said pet pilot chooses to do with said pet pilot.

good ridance...

Little exterme for just one thread,but sorry to see ya go. Didn't think the discussions were that bad. maybe between a few people ,but not majority of us. well anyway good gaming and stop back in and see us ,will probably still be here.:)